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September 29, 2008
The Rules
Visiting Grove City College last week -- that brave school that has long said to the government, "We shall not bow down before you" -- I was struck by the normality of the students. I don't mean that as faint praise. In fact, I have plenty of good things to say about the college, and maybe I'll say them in my next post, but the one thing that struck me most forcibly was that the students were, well, normal. Let me give you a few examples.
I was sitting in the Student Center, waiting for my host and idly looking at that only remaining section of most newspapers that a thinking person can sometimes skim -- I mean the sports section --, when I overheard a conversation among three men, discussing the stock market, how various investments were faring, what Hoover did and did not do in 1929, and how an intelligent investor should treat his debt in a time of tight credit. I figured they were three economics professors, but no, they were only undergraduates. They were normal undergraduates, in the sense that they were cut from some reliable norma or T-square, rather than dilapidated shambles of appetite and fad. The evening before, as I was walking through the giant quadrangle at the center of campus, I overheard baritone strains of opera, and looked over to see a burly young fellow filling the area with Puccini (I think) as he ran down a frisbee sailing over his head. Again, it struck me as rare, these days, but wholly normal that a young person out of doors on a pleasant day should want to sing. And it was like that all the time I was there. I was even told the undergraduate men and women had an eye to marrying one another. "Ring by Spring" is the merry proverb at Grove City. You put over a thousand good looking and healthy young men in the company of over a thousand good looking and healthy young women (the numbers are exactly even at Grove City), and it's no wonder that there are a lot of marriages. That's normal.
Now Mrs. Esolen and I have talked quite a lot about this business of marriage, especially as our daughter enters her junior year of college, and as many of my favorite students, now family friends, grow older and are looking for someone to marry. Their choices have occasionally been, alas, less than satisfactory. We've concluded that although almost everybody recognizes that a lot of students graduate high school whom only a fool would hire, the bigger problem is that even more young men and women are out there, many of them graduates of college, whom only a fool would marry. They are common, as common as nails. But they are not normal. You can have a bucket of nails bent out of shape, and that wouldn't make them normal either, not if there were a thousand to every nail that you could actually drive into a board.
So then, whom could you marry? A long time ago we came up with something we called "Esolen's Rules." They're only half facetious. But they are an attempt to get at the normal:
1. Don't marry a woman who likes cats but does not like dogs. You may marry a woman who doesn't like either, or whose reason for not liking dogs is that one of them bit her when she was a toddler. But a woman who likes cats but does not like dogs will be a Joan Crawford or Jane Wyman. Ronald Reagan married Jane Wyman, and look how sorry he was about that.
2. Don't marry a man who is neater than you are. You may, however, marry a man who polishes his tools and puts them away after use....
3. Don't marry anybody, man or woman, who says, "I'm going to call you at eight," and then leaves you waiting by the phone for an hour. Exceptions can be made for people who are kidnapped by Arabs, or who have epileptic seizures.
4. Don't marry anybody who insists on a separate bank account, bed, bathroom, vacation, or zip code. It makes no sense to be one flesh and two wallets.
5. Don't marry a woman who spends more on makeup than she does on food. In general, don't marry a woman who engages in the sin of reverse gluttony.
6. Don't marry a man who does not like dogs. Such men do not like children. Don't marry a man who does not like children. On the other hand, I have known at least one excellent man who thought he didn't like children, until he had some; seven, I think, at last count. Perhaps the rule may be rephrased: Don't marry a man whom you cannot imagine rolling on the ground in a wrestling hold, with a Labrador retriever or three children, or hollering on a ferris wheel, with a Labrador retriever or three children.
7. Don't marry a woman who exercises so frequently that you cannot tell if she is a woman or a very strange looking 13-year-old boy. I'm going out on a line here, but the real purpose of the rule is to determine whether she will mind getting fat, as happens when you are going to have a child. In other words, don't marry a woman whom you cannot imagine having a child. Do not marry a woman who does not like children.
8. Do not marry a man who treats his mother or his sisters discourteously. As he treats his mother, so will he treat you. But by all means do not marry a man who takes his direction from his mother, or who is ruled by his mother's ambitions. Mama's boys are unhappy, and they make their wives unhappy too. So are the mothers of mama's boys, come to think of it. Unhappy days are here again.
9. Do not marry a woman who sneers at innocent male pastimes, such as football. Such women do not really enjoy the company of men, and after a period soon reached, do not enjoy the company of their own husbands. They are also the most ignorant of what men are really like. You may marry a tomboy, so long as she's a girlish tomboy and doesn't take the sport with dreadful seriousness. You may marry a Daddy's girl, so long as she is not spoiled when it comes to money.
10. Never marry anyone who is secretive about money. Such people are also secretive about sex.
11. Never marry a man who lets you take the initiative in everything. You want a jellyfish, maybe? You want Burt Lancaster instead.
12. Never marry a woman who never lets you take the initiative in anything. You want a porcupine, maybe? You want Maureen O'Hara instead.
13. Never marry a woman who does not laugh at your jokes or your buffoonery. That is one of the nicest ways in which men "serve" women, and women respond by taking delight in the antics. That is why God made impersonators of Marlon Brando, Sean Connery, and Homer Simpson. It may in fact be the principal justification for the existence of Marlon Brando, Sean Connery, and Homer Simpson. This rule is simply an instance of the more general rule that you should never marry a woman who does not genuinely admire you, nor should a woman marry a man whom she does not admire.
14. Never marry anyone who delights in "exposing" you in public. Teasing does not count; in fact, never marry a man who cannot be teased. You can marry a woman who cannot be teased.
15. Never marry a man who is not admired by respectable male friends. The people in the world who know a man best are the men he works and plays with. They know well if he is a cheat, a thug, a loser. You may marry a man who does not have female friends. If anything, you should be suspicious of a man whose friends are principally female. The men may be avoiding him, and there is a reason for that.
16. Never marry anyone who is not interested in looking at your fourth-grade yearbook. This means: never marry anyone who seems unaware that he or she is marrying also a family, a hometown, a past, silly friends, comedies and tragedies. Never marry anyone who does not want to meet your father and mother. If your sister doesn't like him, dump him. If your sister doesn't like her, dump her. That is why God created sisters. Their approval, however, is not a sufficient condition; they will occasionally like losers, but they almost never detest good marrying material.
17. Never marry a feminist of either sex. That would be as bad as marrying someone with the soul (not the occupation, but the soul) of a lawyer.
18. Never marry anyone whom you catch in a lie, even a little one. Trust us on this one. People in love are about the most gullible creatures on God's green earth. In fact, beside the dictionary entry on "gullible" there's a picture of a woman in love, eyes looking dreamily upward, hands holding her chin; and a picture of an indignant young man defending the honor of his beloved, who would never do such a thing, no sir!
19. Never marry a woman who does not like to feed people, or a man who does not like to help out with the removal of a junked car, regardless of how much he knows about junked cars. By all means marry a woman who enjoys seeing men eat, or a man who looks at a mudslide and says, "I can make a really fine wall out of that."
20. Never marry anyone, man or woman, who scoffs at virtue, who reduces "good" and "evil" to arbitrary counters in the war of all against all, whose humor is flippancy, who looks down upon janitors and maids, who cannot delight in making simple things (like a batting T or a thank-you note), who thinks tradition is old and shopworn (such people are followers of every fad that comes), and who is never, ever, just relaxed, grateful for a shady seat under the maple tree in fall. That is another way of saying that you should never marry anyone who does not know who God is.
Posted by Anthony Esolen at 09:41 PM | Permalink
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I must commend our local sage, who has done a great service for the next generation. Choosing a life's partner is tricky business, but with guidelines like these, fewer people will make a tragic mistake:So then, whom could you marry? A long time ago we... [Read More]
Tracked on Sep 30, 2008 9:38:13 AM
Comments
You've limited the field somewhat...
Posted by: TM | Sep 29, 2008 10:00:16 PM
Tony,
Can I add an addendum to rule #13?
Marry a woman who laughs at your enjoyment of the Three (Six?) Stooges, even if she doesn't care for them herself.
Otherwise, your list is near perfection and every so much better than that silly book a friend convinced me to read!
Kamilla
Posted by: Kamilla | Sep 29, 2008 10:45:26 PM
>>You've limited the field somewhat...<<
Indeed. And so much the better for it.
These rules remind me of a set imparted to me by my former youth pastor (he is now our church's sole pastor as we look to call a new senior pastor), a good friend.
For men:
1) Always apologize. If there’s friction, it’s 99.9% likely that you did something wrong. So apologize for it. Do not be so proud as to think you are without fault. Word of warning: know what you’re apologizing for!
2) (This rule omitted out of habit. It is "guy-exclusive"; in other words, it isn't supposed to be shared with women...go figure.)
3) Christ must be first in her life. Or you will never be second.
4) No close girlfriends. You will not associate exclusively and intimately with another female. It leads to suspicion and demeans your exclusivity with her. If you profess to be hers, then you better be able to be with her the same way you’re with another girl, and more.
5) Never lie. Really not complicated.
6) Give her an adventure. You will not be boring, you will have direction in life. You will give her something to support and enjoy.
7) Have a life. Get out with friends. She is not the sole reason for your existence. Never will be. Moreover, she may suck for you, no matter that you think differently. Your loving friends, objective third parties, will tell you as much.
8) You can’t both love and protect. This is a two-way rule. You can’t love and protect her because love is about freedom, and you can’t lock her up so she’ll never be hurt. On top of that, you cannot protect yourself, because love is about vulnerability. You might get hurt. Get over it.
9) She must be your equal. Think your smarter, more attractive, cooler? If you don’t respect her as your peer, you will not foster a healthy relationship. Not to mention it means you don’t love her anyway.
10) Don’t be a wimp. Step up. Be bold. Embrace your male instincts to do things for her. Don’t let her whip you, et cetera, et cetera.
11) Take walks. Do not go anywhere. Do not intend to go anywhere. Just take a walk. This is time with her that fosters conversation and deeper intimacy.
12) Be a gentleman. Open doors, pull out chairs, say excuse me, put a napkin on your lap. It may seem archaic, but it shows you respect her enough to act with courtesy, even if it is a bit over-the-top.
13) Don’t strut. The desire to establish your "alpha" position with other males only reveals your own insecurity. Be secure with who you are, in life, in Christ, and in her.
14) Use poetry. Or songs. Or something. Be romantic, show that art matters and that you take the time to learn (or write) something beautiful for her.
For girls:
1) Do not expect or complain without first verbally communicating a desire. Yes, this seems wordy, but let's be frank: men do not read your mind, no matter how well they know you. They want to please you, so help them out.
2) Forgive and forget. Do not bring up an old mistake or fault during a disagreement three weeks later as emotional blackmail. Men aren't perfect; we never will be. So when we are genuinely sorry, know that we are genuinely sorry.
3) (I do not know this rule. As number 2 is guy-exclusive, number 3 is apparently girl-exclusive.)
4) No close guy friends.
5) Never lie.
6) Christ must be first in his life.
7) Have a life.
8) Your relationship is between two people. You and him. Do not gossip with your friends about what you did. Share, have a life, yes. But the point of intimacy is also privacy.
9) Be proactive. Just as men want to please you (cf. #1), they also want to pursue you. But a gentleman will not court without permission--let him know, somehow, how you feel.
10) Do not attempt to control the relationship. Relationships evolve on their own time; to push something before it is time forces people into things they are not ready for. In the words of Solomon, "do not awaken love before it so desires."
11) Let him ride to your rescue. You ought not to be a damsel in distress, but when you need help with something, let him be that help. He wants to be your white knight--if he is in anyway worth it, he better be noble--give him a chance to do so.
12) Don't nag. Not every task is about the value of the relationship. When you ask him to do something, and he says he will, trust him. He will do it on his time. If it is important, tell him, but do not continually press an issue that is non-essential; it says you don't value you what he is doing for you.
13) Clothing communicates. So consider what you are wearing. An outfit doesn't just show him you're beautiful, but everyone else--what are you sharing with the passers-by that is exclusively his?
14) You cannot change a man. So don't try.
Posted by: Michael | Sep 29, 2008 10:53:45 PM
Gah! Italics off.
Posted by: Michael | Sep 29, 2008 10:54:11 PM
Indeed, perfection is a very limited field.
J. R. R. Tolkien reminded one of his sons that women are not china dolls on pedestals, they are fellow survivors of a shipwreck. Women ought also remember this about men, and parents about the younger generation.
Likewise as I would hear Mrs. Schaeffer say in years past "In a fallen world, if you demand perfection or nothing, you will always get nothing."
Finally, Anthony Esolen, consider these "losers": Did God make junk? Are they truly trash? Or are they human beings made in the Image of the Living God, damaged by the Fall and by sin, ill-served by the current society and educational system, and who you, as a Christian, are called to serve, not to be snide about?
Posted by: labrialumn | Sep 29, 2008 11:23:38 PM
"13. Never marry a woman who does not laugh at your jokes or your buffoonery."
Absolutely! This trait is rarely genetic, however: your kids will likely scratch their heads in wonder (or worse...) at your jokes. Just remember--SHE still laughes! You may be a buffoon, but you're HER buffoon...
Posted by: Bill R | Sep 29, 2008 11:28:47 PM
"9) She must be your equal. Think your smarter, more attractive, cooler? If you don’t respect her as your peer, you will not foster a healthy relationship. Not to mention it means you don’t love her anyway."
No, no, no, no BLECH! To quote a friend, "love doesn't speak the language of equality". He also told me to take a look at the scene in Shakespeare's "The Tempest" where Ferdinand and Miranda declare their love for one another.
Equality? No thanks.
Kamilla
Posted by: Kamilla | Sep 30, 2008 12:37:21 AM
Kamilla,
I've always found number nine a weird rule, too. It strikes me as funny that we who know we are unworthy of love--it is at the very core of the Gospel--should think we are somehow on the same footing as those we aspire to.
But I think the point of the rule isn't an equality of station (that's heresy), but an equality of value. To put another on a pedestal not only makes you by point of station blindly kowtowed to her will (completely circumventing the pointing of having an individual life), but also gives her very little room to move before she comes crashing down to earth. By the same token, to think we are in anyway above our significant others is to deify ourselves.
That said in my pastor's defense, however, I cannot help but think though I lead her, though I strive to be better for her, that I am still aspiring to the level of my girlfriend. Call it a paradox.
Posted by: Michael | Sep 30, 2008 1:27:18 AM
>>>It makes no sense to be one flesh and two wallets.<<<
But it makes perfect sense to have one flesh and three bathrooms, especially after one has female children. Women's grooming paraphenalia expands to fill the available bathroom counter space, in any case.
>>.Do not marry a woman who sneers at innocent male pastimes, such as football. <<<
I sneer at football. Marry a woman who prefers more manly sports, such as crew.
>>>Never marry anyone who is not interested in looking at your fourth-grade yearbook. <<<
Conversely, never marry anybody who INSISTS on looking at your fourth grade year book. There are some things you simply don't want others to know.
>>> She must be your equal. Think your smarter, more attractive, cooler? If you don’t respect her as your peer, you will not foster a healthy relationship. Not to mention it means you don’t love her anyway."<<<
Actually, as I said before, all married women are slumming.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 4:46:27 AM
I've never seen anything like rule #13 before, but I just realized that maybe 33% of the laughs in our marriage are from her laughing at my "buffoonery". And I eat it up. The other 67% comes from laughing at the antics of our children.
I also think AE's list is better (saner, less rigorous maybe) than the one from Michael's youth pastor. I also agree with Kamilla (and Michael) that estimations of "equality" should have no place in one's thinking on these matters. It's unseemly.
Posted by: W.E.D. Godbold | Sep 30, 2008 7:46:42 AM
"Did God make junk? Are they truly trash? Or are they human beings made in the Image of the Living God, damaged by the Fall and by sin, ill-served by the current society and educational system, and who you, as a Christian, are called to serve, not to be snide about?"
Well, the Cretans are liars, evil beasts, slow-bellies - so quoted St. Paul (and asserted, "This testimony is true"). Of course, Paul himself was recruited from among those a Greater called a "generation of vipers", among other dismissive and disparaging comments.
It was said the great General Jackson "lived by the New Testament, fought by the Old"; in the same way, let us evangelize by the Gospels, loving and compassionate - but court by the book of Proverbs, shrewd and judgemental. Each is a corrective to the natural tendency.
Posted by: Joe Long | Sep 30, 2008 8:35:26 AM
"Or are they human beings made in the Image of the Living God, damaged by the Fall and by sin, ill-served by the current society and educational system, and who you, as a Christian, are called to serve, not to be snide about?"
And called to marry, apparently?
Posted by: Wonders for Oyarsa | Sep 30, 2008 9:07:34 AM
Excellent -- I will remember this in the future! Here are a few others I could think of, mostly light-hearted but filled with a kernel of truth.
-- Do not marry her if her Christmas or Birthday lists contains the phrase "Any movie with Brad Pitt." Schoolgirl crushes should have stopped with high school. Likewise, do not marry him if he attempts to defend Jessica Alba's acting.
-- Do not marry him if he cannot control his temper. A rare outburst when the car dies in traffic or the computer eats an important document is one thing, but if he throws stuff, swears, and snaps at you because his kicker on his fantasy football team didn't win, tell him its over. This goes double if its a video game. Likewise, if she ever responds to "what is wrong?" with "nothing" followed by a lot of pouting, call her on it once. After that, be done with it.
-- Marry her if she says she's spent time in prayer over the future of your relationship. Marry him if he does the same thing. Do not marry her if she tells you that God told her that you're "The One" after one date.
-- Do not marry him if he refuses pre-marital counseling.
-- Do not marry her if she appears to be horrified about being single after college.
-- Do not marry him if he's a lot older, but gleefully boasts about how he doesn't "feel" 34 and doesn't think of himself as a day older than 21. If he is struggling with growing up, he always will.
-- You may marry her if she has a cat or two. Do not marry her if these cats are the primary subject of her conversation, insist on sleeping with her, and are allowed to sit on human furniture you are not allowed to sit on. Do not marry her if she has a post-it with the slogan "The more men I meet, the more I love my cat."
Posted by: David Poe | Sep 30, 2008 9:15:25 AM
Wonders,
Exactly. We're called to love people whom we would never hire. We're called to love people whom we would never marry, or would never want our sons or daughters to approach, not in a hundred years.
The "Rules" here are meant to be filters. We've tried to come up with little diagnostic criteria that will filter out almost all the bad 'uns, while unfortunately catching quite a few decent people too. The idea is that the loss you incur in marrying badly is far more devastating than is the loss you incur in failing to marry someone who might have been all right.
One Rule I forgot to mention, and I don't know how I forgot it:
Never marry anyone who believes in divorce. You may yourself believe in divorce, in which case nobody should marry you; but that's the other person's lookout. Even if you believe in divorce, you should not marry anyone else who does.
If that Rule sounds harsh, allow me to translate it into other fields:
Never enlist a man as a soldier who believes that desertion is an option. Never enter a business partnership with someone who believes it may be all right to break your contract, embezzle half of your assets, and join up with the competition.
Posted by: Tony Esolen | Sep 30, 2008 9:20:50 AM
>>>-- Do not marry her if her Christmas or Birthday lists contains the phrase "Any movie with Brad Pitt." Schoolgirl crushes should have stopped with high school. Likewise, do not marry him if he attempts to defend Jessica Alba's acting.<<<
Alan Rickman is OK, though, right? 'Cause otherwise, I made a BIG mistake 27 years ago.
>>>-- Do not marry him if he refuses pre-marital counseling.<<<
An absolute waste of time, unless of course, you're too immature to get married in the first place. None (I repeat NONE) of the most successful marriages I know (including my own) every bothered with "pre-marital counseling. Talk about the triumph of the therapeutic!
>>>-- Do not marry him if he's a lot older, but gleefully boasts about how he doesn't "feel" 34 and doesn't think of himself as a day older than 21. If he is struggling with growing up, he always will.<<<
You seem to be one of those people who equates "maturity" with "being too tired".
>>>-- You may marry her if she has a cat or two. Do not marry her if these cats are the primary subject of her conversation, insist on sleeping with her, and are allowed to sit on human furniture you are not allowed to sit on. Do not marry her if she has a post-it with the slogan "The more men I meet, the more I love my cat."<<<
What if you have a cat or two, and they are the primary subject of your conversation? Can the two of you get together and live cattily every after? 'Cause if you can't, I made another big mistake 27 years ago.
All of which goes to show that fatuity of making up such stupid lists, even in jest.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 9:29:46 AM
>>Alan Rickman is OK, though, right?<<
He's in Harry Potter and played an cynical angel, so we're safe. Besides if there were a proliferation of Alan Rickman movies and series back in the early 80s, I would have snatched them up, too.
>>You seem to be one of those people who equates "maturity" with "being too tired".<<
Nope, I realize that maturity has both its rewards and responsibilities, while someone who is 34 going on 21 is simply desperate to cling to the frivolities of their youth. Be active all you want, run, play football with the kids or the guys, build a triple-cheese burger at Fuddruckers, I don't care. Just remember to grow up after college. Nothing's more pathetic than a guy in his mid-30s who wants to spend most of his waking hours partying and playing XBOX and order pizza until 4am every night -- unless he's in his mid 40s and doing the same.
>>'Cause if you can't, I made another big mistake 27 years ago.<<
Pay attention to the "and" word, it means that there are additional conditions.
>>All of which goes to show that fatuity of making up such stupid lists, even in jest.<<
Just a list, you should really relax.
Posted by: David Poe | Sep 30, 2008 9:52:56 AM
Lists can be wonderful things...my wife had one, and apparently used it to nix a few candidates - and she claims she didn't even have to bend it, to accept ME. I haven't looked too closely at that claim, leaving room for charity.
I think the real value of the idea is to establish that before marriage is the time to establish your set of "deal-breakers" - and to, if necessary, break the deal. Too many folks apparently do that in the wrong order; they court whatever they find attractive, marry it, and only give it a list of "musts" and "cannots".
Posted by: Joe Long | Sep 30, 2008 9:57:09 AM
>>>Just remember to grow up after college. Nothing's more pathetic than a guy in his mid-30s who wants to spend most of his waking hours partying and playing XBOX and order pizza until 4am every night -- unless he's in his mid 40s and doing the same.<<<
I don't know any teenagers who do that, but I tend to hang out with the overachievers.
>>>Just a list, you should really relax.<<<
I was fine until you got to the pre-marital counseling part, which I see as pernicious and counterproductive. If Churches wait until their young people get engaged to address the nature and responsibilities of marriage, it's waaaay too late for a few hours with a Kumbayah-spouting, touchy-feelie facilitator to do much good. Besides, as I said, I don't know any long-married couples who did that thing, and lots of divorced couples who did.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 10:11:27 AM
>>>Lists can be wonderful things...my wife had one, and apparently used it to nix a few candidates - and she claims she didn't even have to bend it, to accept ME.<<<
You know she's lying, Joe. Either she didn't have a list in the first place, or she did and tore it up when she met you.
If my wife had a list, she must have had, "Must be obnoxious New York Jew" written on the top of the page. Because the first thing she said upon meeting me was "Boy, he sure is obnoxious".
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 10:13:39 AM
I find with the young people who wander into my office wishing to discuss this subject that it is quite salutory to ask them to list all the traits they are looking for in a prospective husband or wife. Once we've established this ideal, this paragon of virtue, this perfect elder or Proverbs 31 woman, I then ask, "So, are you the kind of woman/man that this person you've described would want to marry? If not, what are you doing to get there?"
Once we work that through, I've seen not a few very chastened folk wander back out -- hopefully both more realistic about human beings and more concerned with developing their own character.
Posted by: Beth from TN | Sep 30, 2008 10:22:09 AM
>>>Never enlist a man as a soldier who believes that desertion is an option. <<<
I don't think I know of any soldiers who don't, when the going gets really tought, think of desertion as an option. It's always an option, there in the back of your head. But you don't do it, not because you don't believe in it, but because you are worried about what your buddies will think of you. Primary group bonds, and the fear of being though afraid are what hold soldiers in the line.
But even then, it is recognized that combat drains the courage out of a man. Every soldier has his limits, beyond which he cannot go. It is both a mental and physical debilitation--lack of food, lack of sleep, constant stress, constant fear all take their toll. Most combat psychologists now believe that most men reach their limit after about 180 days on the line.
Think of the man's courage as a battery. As he is exposed to combat, he runs down the charge, until the battery is flat. Taking the man off the line for rest and recuperation may partially recharge the battery somewhat, but it never goes back to its original level. Every man has his breaking point, and when he reaches it, he can react in different ways: he can become psychotic; he can become catatonic; he can run away. At that particular point, the bonds of comradeship and the constraints of being thought a coward no longer have the power to hold him on the line.
I'm not saying marriage is like that--though undoubtedly some of them are.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 10:23:35 AM
>>>Once we work that through, I've seen not a few very chastened folk wander back out -- hopefully both more realistic about human beings and more concerned with developing their own character.<<<
Just tell them not to make perfect the enemy of the good, or they will die at home, alone, surrounded by hundreds of cats.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 10:24:57 AM
That's what "more realistic" was meant to convey. :)
Posted by: Beth from TN | Sep 30, 2008 10:28:22 AM
I should add to my digression on soldiers and desertion that the same kinds of bonding and constraints that keep soldiers together seem to me at work in marriage, too. People stay together because they bond with each other, and neither wants to let down the other. At the same time, fear of being thought a failure also keeps people from walking out, although in this case, it is probably more societal expectations than those of one's spouse.
If this is the case, then the main thing needed to strengthen marriage is to re-stigmafy divorce, just as the best way to reinvigorate marriage is to re-stigmafy premarital sex and bastardy.
Which, of course, society is not going to do because, well, that might hurt someone's feelings.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 10:28:58 AM
"Never marry anyone who believes in divorce. You may yourself believe in divorce, in which case nobody should marry you; but that's the other person's lookout. Even if you believe in divorce, you should not marry anyone else who does."
Absolutely, Tony! And, for folks in my age range, that generally means don't marry someone who is already divorced.
When a friend of mine and his wife married over 30 years ago, his father refused to do the honors until they agreed to promise, as part of the ceremony, never to consider divorce as an option.
To that, I would add, never sleep apart due to anger. And, never worship separately. I've seen too many cases where these two lead to the reconsideration of the divorce option.
Kamilla
Posted by: Kamilla | Sep 30, 2008 10:55:46 AM
>>>Absolutely, Tony! And, for folks in my age range, that generally means don't marry someone who is already divorced.<<<
On the other hand, I know quite a few people whose second marriages have worked out just fine.
>>>When a friend of mine and his wife married over 30 years ago, his father refused to do the honors until they agreed to promise, as part of the ceremony, never to consider divorce as an option.<<<
Well, he's an ass, and lucky that they still talk to him.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 12:00:07 PM
One rule: if you are a woman, marry the man who seems to you the perfect representative of the virtues of masculinity. If you are a man, marry the woman who seems to exemplify the true nature of femininity.
Posted by: Abigail | Sep 30, 2008 12:10:04 PM
"Because the first thing she said upon meeting me was "Boy, he sure is obnoxious"."
Wow, that's really hard to believe, Stuart!
Posted by: Bill R | Sep 30, 2008 12:14:41 PM
Stuart,
I am sure you know how much value I place on your opinion of a man you've never met. Come to think of it, it's about the same value I place on your opinion of most things.
Kamilla
Posted by: Kamilla | Sep 30, 2008 12:29:56 PM
So does Greta like obnoxious men, Stuart, or did your other qualities overcome her?
Posted by: Judy K. Warner | Sep 30, 2008 12:34:30 PM
Sucky people suck n stuff. . .they should go away!
Posted by: Bob | Sep 30, 2008 12:36:46 PM
Don't know why Stuart needs to be so contrary here. It's pretty clear what Tony means by "considering divorce an option". Yes, desertion could be a moral option in some conceivable circumstance, but Tony is quite right that holding out in the difficult times is a matter of something "not being an option" to you, and not just "a choice I am currently choosing not to exercise". One has to burn the ships.
Anyway, the thing about premarital counseling need not be trivial or therapeutic, especially in this day and age where even churchgoing folks are religiously illiterate. It's often a very necessary time for catachesis.
Posted by: Wonders for Oyarsa | Sep 30, 2008 12:47:15 PM
This isn't a rule like the ones above, but a suggestion. If you want to marry someone who meets certain requirements, go where people like that are likely to be. This sounds obvious, but in my experience many people don't do that, but think the perfect partner will spring out the ground in front of them.
Posted by: Judy K. Warner | Sep 30, 2008 12:50:14 PM
Yes, Judy - she has to show up to the party. But, I think that once she has come, it is *his* job to ask, "May I have this dance?"
Kamilla
Posted by: Kamilla | Sep 30, 2008 12:59:17 PM
Old joke (shorn of original dialect):
Judge to defendent in case of "nonsupport" : "Sir, you know how strongly I disapprove of desertion..."
Defendent: "Judge, you don't know that woman. I'm no deserter; I'm a refugee!"
Judy - even worse than expecting those "someones" to appear in ordinary life, lots of youngsters go looking for them exactly where they WOULDN'T be. Amazing, the level of thought that DOESN'T go into these things...
Posted by: Joe Long | Sep 30, 2008 1:31:53 PM
>>>One rule: if you are a woman, marry the man who seems to you the perfect representative of the virtues of masculinity. If you are a man, marry the woman who seems to exemplify the true nature of femininity.<<<
These seem like rules for perpetual bachelorhood and spinsterhood, if you ask me. Why not take up the monastic tonsure immediately, and save some time?
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 1:33:41 PM
>>>Wow, that's really hard to believe, Stuart!<<<
Isn't it, though?
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 1:34:22 PM
>>>Don't know why Stuart needs to be so contrary here. It's pretty clear what Tony means by "considering divorce an option". <<<
In the "good old days", why precisely did people NOT get divorced? Was it because they had a deeper commitment to marriage, or a better understanding of marriage's sacramental implications? I don't think so. It really comes down to a few very pragmatic factors:
1. In many places, divorce was simply illegal (particularly in Catholic countries), so that put a damper on things right away.
2. In other countries (e.g., Great Britain, divorce was hideously expensive and time consuming, which placed it out of reach of most people.
3. In places where it was neither prohibited outright or priced out of reach, it was still messy (someone had to be found guilty of something) and was the object of social stigma. "Respectable" people did not get divorced, and everybody wanted to be "respectable". Faced with the disapproval of the neighbors (and the family), most people would tough it out rather than undergo the trauma.
In other words, just as with the soldier and desertion, for the married couple divorce was always an option, but one which typically was rejected because of exterior constraints as well as interior inhibitions which had nothing whatsoever to do with religious commitment.
>>>Anyway, the thing about premarital counseling need not be trivial or therapeutic, especially in this day and age where even churchgoing folks are religiously illiterate. It's often a very necessary time for catachesis.<<<
But it usually is (my experience reviewing the materials used in a lot of Catholic "Pre-Cana" programs), and furthermore, six or eight weeks of catechesis after a life of twenty-something years is not going to inspire metanoia in those who don't understand the meaning of Christian marriage.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 1:43:38 PM
I've read that some pre-marital counselors use written instruments that--while they don't do a very good job of predicting compatibility--have a very high (like 85%) chance of detecting incompatibility. That wouldn't be a bad thing to know before getting married, especially considering the self-delusion to which our race is prone. Of course there have been lots of happy marriages instituted before the invention of such instruments, but we've lost a lot of the cultural capital that helped to guide those.
I do think there are species of people who do make the perfect the enemy of the good. That is, they are so afraid of divorce they aren't willing to risk much in a marriage partner.
Posted by: W.E.D. Godbold | Sep 30, 2008 1:44:09 PM
>>>So does Greta like obnoxious men, Stuart, or did your other qualities overcome her?<<<
I guess I'm good breeding stock.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 1:44:59 PM
>>>This isn't a rule like the ones above, but a suggestion. If you want to marry someone who meets certain requirements, go where people like that are likely to be. <<<
Most people meet the people they marry at the places they spend most of their time, which would be either school or work. There are certain advantages to this: when you spend a lot of time with a person (say, about 40 hours a week), you get to see a lot of different sides of that person which you would not see in a more exclusive setting (e.g., a church social).
The downside is you get to see a lot of that person before you get married.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 1:48:07 PM
Mr. Koehl: Usually I respect your opinions, even when expressed merely to be contrary, and in fact I often agree with them, but #3 above is a circular argument. Why was divorce not "respectable?" Why would the neighbors disapprove? Isn't it because the broader society recognized the trouble that divorce brings?
Posted by: James Kabala | Sep 30, 2008 1:53:10 PM
Mr. Esolen,
Fortunately I have had (taken) the time to read all the comments, some (most) of which have gone far afield of your original list. So I would like to comment on the original document rather than on the interpretations.
1. As the father of two teenage boys and a beautifully precious 9-year-old girl, thanks for the list.
2. I also chased frisbees when I was in college. Still do occasionally. I must admit, however, I never sang while doing so.
Posted by: Lee Herring | Sep 30, 2008 2:48:03 PM
>>>Why was divorce not "respectable?" <<<
A whole range of reasons, which, ultimately, one might trace back to New Testament injunctions against it, but these were certainly secondary. Divorce was not respectable because (a) it indicated either that a man was unfaithful to his wife (not so bad, except when one got caught at it), or (b) that he could not control his wife. That in turn would put the whole issue of progeny into doubt. A man wearing horns was not worthy of respect--even before Christian times.
For a woman, it was the flip side of the coin: if she was the guilty party, then she was a trollop, and no other "respectable" man would have her, because she could not be trusted to remain chaste. If she was the offended party, then it was a matter of whether she could keep her man at home, or worse, that she didn't have the good sense to look the other way.
As I said, these attitudes are pre-Christian, going back to the Romans.
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 3:27:54 PM
I have a married relative - let's call her my "sister," per Esolen Rule #16 - who gives per-marital counseling, for free, and without even waiting for a solicitation. The brand of counseling is the one that makes marriage out to be what it is made out to be in advertisements selling E.D. drugs. (I'm just saying, when God made sisters, He made them a lot of fun. ;-)
Posted by: Clifford Simon | Sep 30, 2008 6:27:49 PM
>>>I have a married relative - let's call her my "sister," per Esolen Rule #16 - who gives per-marital counseling, for free, and without even waiting for a solicitation. <<<
Every Jewish family has at least one of those. We call them yentas.
>>>The brand of counseling is the one that makes marriage out to be what it is made out to be in advertisements selling E.D. drugs.<<<
You mean you and the Missus are getting in the mood when your teenage daughter suddenly arrives home from college without so much as a word of warning? Yeah, that is PRECISELY what marriage is like (unless it's like the commercial in which poor dysfunctional hubby, having taken his little blue pill, accidentally breaks the faucet on the kitchen sink, sending plumes of water everywhere in an overtly freudian manner).
Posted by: Stuart Koehl | Sep 30, 2008 6:31:30 PM
>>The brand of counseling is the one that makes marriage out to be what it is made out to be in advertisements selling E.D. drugs.<<
Two bathtubs side by side overlooking the coast?
A bunch of middle-aged guys making up new lyrics to "Viva Las Vegas"?
I sure hope marriage *isn't* like E.D. commercials; I don't know how I could ever get in the mood if I was always hearing some voice in the background blather on about side-effects...
Posted by: Ethan C. | Sep 30, 2008 7:28:34 PM
I always think of the Levitra commercial where the man can't seem to throw a football through a tire...
Which is technically an aiming problem. The football was fully inflated.
Posted by: Michael | Sep 30, 2008 7:31:13 PM
Stuart,
I didn't say, "Marry the woman who is the perfect instantiation of femininity"; I said marry the one who seems to you to be perfectly feminine. Big difference there. The point is not only the virtues of the woman, but also your special appreciation of her particular virtues. And love, we can hope, covers and transforms a lot of flaws.
Then again, maybe I'm just in a panic at the thought that my own children--I have four teenagers--will aim too low. I'm having a hard time imagining a man good enough for my oldest daughter, if you want to know the truth.
Posted by: Abigail | Sep 30, 2008 8:46:29 PM
Huzzah, the full list! Guess I can delete that old email now . . . (am I allowed to like cats more than dogs if I have a history of caninephobia? :-D)
Posted by: Maggie | Sep 30, 2008 8:57:47 PM






