Christians to the Lions!

Steve Breitenbach did me the favor of sending this link to an article by Ruth Gledhill in the Times OnLine which opens:

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

The U. S., you see, is more religious, and more dangerous, than peaceful secularized Europe.

It's an odd list of damages, too. Had the researchers been working in, say, the third century A.D., would they have filed a report with the Emperor, stating, "We urge that Christians be fed to the lions since they are damaging to our society, with their contrary religious beliefs that directly oppose killing, abortion, sexual promiscuity, and suicide"?

Comments

[Mark B, Hanson]

I am not quite sure I understand. In modern European societies, aren't abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide considered good things? So there are a few more murders when religious people are around [though no indication of who is killing whom...] - seems like a small price to pay for the added freedoms to kill babies, selves, and virginity that Europeans value so highly.

[Juli]

In modern European societies, aren't abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide considered good things?

The abortion rate is lower in much lower in Western European countries than in the United States, as are the rates of teen pregancy. I believe that the abortion rates in *Eastern* Europe are among the highest anywhere, but the United States is "ahead" of Western Europe in this demographic, as well as in rates of HIV infection.

Not sure what that says about our respective attitudes toward promiscuity. Our teen suicide rate is also higher than that in western Europe, but I doubt anyone considers that a good thing.

[Joe Long]

Looks like classic "cause and effect" fallacy to me, not to mention cheap "America bashing". This "research" simply ignores other enormous differences between the societies involved! Apples and oranges don't come close; this is an apples-and-watermelons comparison, and only a deep wish to believe the conclusion could allow a person to take the "research" seriously.

[Gene Godbold]

I'm a natural scientist (biochemistry) and I'd *really* like to see some decent sociologists go over that data. The article in the TimesOnline made the author of the journal article sound as if he had an exceptionally large axe to grind against Christianity. Check out the deeply weird final paragraphs.

[Steve Harrison]

Yeah, that and ice cream causes drownings. Because sure enough when ice cream consumption goes up, the rate of drownings does as well.

But maybe it's all related to Summer...

My point being that correlation does not prove causation. A point the press seems determined not to learn.

[Gabriel Sanchez]

Abortion rates in Europe are lower than the United States because the rates of actual pregnancy are lower. The primary reason being the much more frequent, permissive use of contraception in European society, along with voluntary sterility. If the possibility of conceiving a child is reduced, then the "choice" of wether or not to keep that child alive obviously does not present itself as frequently. Another contributing factor (as has been argued by some) is that Europe's health care and social welfare system convey, at the very least, the easier possibility of having a child and sustaining oneself.

Now, in saying all of that, I am sure I am opening myself up for attack by many who read this blog. However, as best as I know, those have been the continually tested explanatory factors for abortion rates when comparing Western Europe to the United States.

It is worth noting that the United States has a higher rate of economic disparity than does Europe and our social welfare system is considerably smaller than theirs. Without arguing whether or not our approach to economics is good or bad, I will say that Europe has situated itself for the time being to better handle (in a public fashion) the clear health, social, and monetary concerns that came with pregnancy and the rearing of a child. Whether or not the root of that capacity to provide (i.e., Europe's socialist-capitalist economic system) is sustainable or won't cause the continent serious problems in the next fifty years is for the economists to decide. The numbers as they stand now do not lie and they serve as a pretty solid point of departure for one to situate the aforementioned explanations upon.

[Maggie]

Yeah, I agree. Europe is nice. Europe is clean. Europe is sterile. Europe is dead.

[Adrienne]

At least this helps disprove the old canard that secularists and atheists have no morals.

[Melanie Steward]

Do you know who first said that the only problem with having so many evangelical Christians around now is that there aren't nearly enough lions. I heard this line a few months ago but can't seem to trace the source of this hilarious remark.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>Without arguing whether or not our approach to economics is good or bad, I will say that Europe has situated itself for the time being to better handle (in a public fashion) the clear health, social, and monetary concerns that came with pregnancy and the rearing of a child. <<<

Since this thread has come back to life, I wonder Gabriel Sanchez would like to reconsider his remarks in light of recent events in France, Germany, Spain and Italy?