Cross? What Cross?

     I've recently been strapping on the swamp boots to wade through something called Glory and Praise, perhaps the most commonly used Roman Catholic hymnal in the United States and Canada.  Oh, it is sloppy and noisome work, logging the bathos, stupidity, banality, heresy, and textual vandalism.  I've concluded, though, that there is one factor that touches every problem, something that helps explain these apparently disparate acts of mischief:

-- the neutering of old masculine language about mankind and even God
-- the heedless fouling up of the old poetry, to update a "thou" and a "thee"
-- the seizing of every chance to talk about dancing (not to be found in the New Testament, I suspect, unless it's Salome) and about the motherhood of God"
-- in general, the louche emphasis upon feelings, not repentance, but soft and syrupy feelings
-- the blithe arrogation of God's words to ourselves, speaking in the first person
-- the arrogation of God's grace and majesty to ourselves: "We are the Bread, we are the Body"
-- the celebration of our own wonderfulness, and the decrying of sin -- that is, other people's sins
-- the abandonment of traditional liturgical forms, traditional poetry and song -- all relegated to the status of the "old fashioned," for trotting out, like Grandmama's silver, at certain feasts, and that's it
-- the passing along of counterfeit "folk" music, actually performance music, like "Do You Remember the Kind of September," only not nearly as good
-- the mincing baby-talk in the verses, along with a bogus primitivism, a la the Indians in Hollywood: "You are child of the universe."

It's narcissism, all of it.  It's the pretty boy at the side of the pool, gazing upon his image in the water, ignoring his parents, the woman in love with him, the reality of the world around him.  He wants to remain a pretty boy forever -- he wants a disembodied "union" with no ties to the past, no duties to his fellows, and no law to obey.  It's music that encourages a choir full of American Idols, shimmying and shaking and calling attention to themselves, while envying one another (I'll bet some of our bloggers have stories about infighting among the twenty self-appointed soloists of a "Christian" choir).

     What's missing from the hymnal?  Oh, music, poetry -- and one thing above all: the Cross.  The Cross sure does seem a fine cure for narcissism.  In all our arguments about ordination and (in the Catholic church) lay "ministry," nobody ever says, "I want the right to be ordained a priest because I demand to be crucified!"  Or, "I want to serve as a lector because I want to be crucified!"  Hardly -- these things and many more are considered clerical plums that everybody ought to be able to pop in the mouth, if they choose.  We are Church, don't you know, not to mention Bread and Body and God Almighty.  If there is a single new "hymn" that is written in the shadow of the Cross, encouraging the taking up of what will leave your back stooped and your shoulders cut with splinters, I haven't seen it.  Meanwhile, a part of my own crucifixion seems to be the necessity of listening to it all, and watching the performers.  Silence would be infinitely better.

Comments

[Susan Peterson]

My impression is that the Gather hymnal is worse. At least the music we actully sang in the Gather parish was worse than the music we actually sang in the Glory and Praise parish.

SFP

[Joe Long]

For the Sunday School lesson this week (filling in for a vacationing teacher) I tackled "Pilgrimage" as a theme, and was constrained to photocopy lyrics from "out of date" hymnals to get the examples I wanted to use. And we're conservative Presbyterians! We haven't adjusted to lefty-biased standards - just dumbed-down and "modernized" - goodbye, "Jordan's Stormy Banks", nor may we "raise an Ebenezer" anymore.

It's much like the teaching of history in government schools: agendas do some harm, especially by rendering the subject itself boring - but trying to make the subject "accessible" sometimes does even more harm.

[Mairnéalach]

Introducing the cross into Christian worship has this one eminent thing to recommend it: It has never been tried before.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

I seem to remember a few hymns mentioning something about it. Even some new ones.

[craig]

I have made my own peace by simply refusing to sing out of the Gather hymnal. I don't attempt any longer to determine whether this song or that is heretical or not, corrupted by PC (the worst non-word in the language is "Godself"), narcissistic dreck, or whatever. It is a simple, liberating conditional expression:

if (hymn in Gather) then silent ();

that mostly keeps my teeth from grinding and my thoughts toward God. I can't stopper my ears against the miked lounge-act emoting of my liturgical "betters", however, so it's not a perfect solution.

[JeanB]

The Trinity hymnal, which is a conservative Christian hymnal (PCA) has changed a lot of the words too. This really aggravates me because I am a cradle Baptist and have memorized most of the old words. My kids get embarassed when I don't sing what is written. But sorry, when we sing "Revive Us Again" and the words in the book say something else, I am singing the old words.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

Hey, why don't we have a good grumpy touchstonian snobbery contest? Catholic vs. Protestant. You Catholics come up with the worst Catholic song you've had to sing (or listen to sung) in church before. And we'll come up with the worst Protestant one.

Once we narrow down the nominations, we'll vote on the absolute worst song - and settle this old which-is-the-true-church-and-who-are-the-godless-heretics thing once and for all!

(Or maybe, rather than voting, we'll just ask the Pope which is the worst...doh!)

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

Beat this, Glory and Praise:

So Close

I'm so secure
You're here with me.
You stay the same
Your love remains
here in my heart.

(Chorus)
So close I believe
You're holding me now,
in Your hands I belong.
You'll never let me go;
So close I believe
You're holding me now
in Your hands I belong,
You'll never let me go.

You gave Your life
and Your endless love.
You set me free
& show the way
now I am found

(Chorus)

(Bridge)
All along You were beside me
even when I couldn't tell
and through the years
You showed me more of You
more of You

(Chorus)

[Darel]

This is precisely the argument made by Thomas Day in Why Catholics Can't Sing. See his chapter 5, titled "Ego Renewal" and especially the comments on the "reformed-folk style" of music so omnipresent in the Catholic Church in America today.

[Judy Warner]

We poor fragmented continuing Anglicans with our tiny parishes have two things to boast of: our 1928 prayerbook and our 1940 hymnal. These do not change; they will not be replaced. We have kept all our thees and thous, our masculine pronouns, our real music -- and our orthodoxy.

[Judy Warner]

I just returned from a week at a music and dance camp in Massachusetts. Probably most of the people there were pagans. The only acceptable religious expression seemed to be eastern. I took an early morning Tai Chi class out of curiousity. (It was boring.) At the end, the teacher said a few words, and told us to give thanks to our inner selves. That struck me as the be-all and end-all of narcissism and I said as much to a woman I was walking back with. I added that I am a Christian. She said, "Then you can give thanks to your inner Christ."

What can you say?

[Joe Long]

Our hymnbook is one thing...but when you introduce the Overhead Projector, well, that's a whole 'nother one.

Jeanb, I also sing the Original Words when I remember them (which I generally do), and I say "For us men and our salvation", "the quick and the dead", and the rest of the creed as literate people knew it.

[Thomas Dunbar]

"if there is a single new hymn written in the shadow of the Cross..."

How about Townend's 1995:

How deep the Father's love for us, how vast beyond all measure
That he should give his only son, to make a wretch his treasure
How great the pain of searing loss, the Father turned his face away
As wounds which mar the chosen one, bring many sons to glory

Behold the man upon a cross, my sin upon his shoulders
Ashamed, I hear my mocking voice call out among the scoffers
It was my sin that held him there until it was accomplished
His dying breath has brought me life; I know that it is finished

I will not boast in anything: no gifts, no power, no wisdom
But I will boast in Jesus Christ; his death and resurrection
Why should I gain from his reward? I cannot give an answer
But this I know with all my heart: his wounds have paid my ransom

[alex]

this sunday i heard forever young at mass...talk about liturgical crimes

[Thomas Dunbar]

my favorite, tho not new, is the Charles Wesley:

1 WRETCHED, helpless, and distrest,
Ah! whither shall I fly?
Ever gasping after rest,
I cannot find it nigh:
Naked, sick, and poor, and blind,
Fast bound in sin and misery,
Friend of sinners, let me find
My help, my all, in thee!

2 I am all unclean, unclean,
Thy purity I want;
My whole heart is sick of sin,
And my whole head is faint;
Full of putrefying sores,
Of bruises, and of wounds, my soul
Looks to Jesus, help implores,
And gasps to be made whole.

3 In the wilderness I stray,
My foolish heart is blind,
Nothing do I know; the way
Of peace I cannot find:
Jesu, Lord, restore my sight,
And take, O take, the veil away!
Turn my darkness into light,
My midnight into day.

4 Naked of thine image, Lord,
Forsaken, and alone,
Unrenewed, and unrestored,
I have not thee put on;
Over me thy mantle spread,
Send down thy likeness from above,
Let thy goodness be displayed,
And wrap me in thy love.

5 Poor, alas! thou know'st I am,
And would be poorer still,
See my nakedness and shame,
And all my vileness feel;
No good thing in me resides,
My soul is all an aching void
Till thy Spirit here abides,
And I am filled with God.

6 Jesus, full of truth and grace,
In thee is all I want;
Be the wanderer's resting-place,
A cordial to the faint;
Make me rich, for I am poor;
In thee may I my Eden find;
To the dying health restore.
And eye-sight to the blind.

7 Clothe me with thy holiness,
Thy meek humility;
Put on me my glorious dress,
Endue my soul with thee;
Let thine image be restored,
Thy name and nature let me prove,
With thy fulness fill me, Lord.
And perfect me in love.

[Thomas Dunbar]

Getting back to Praise & Glory hymnal though, if that IS the current parish hymnal, to what would it be reasonable to transition?

[franksta]

None of our local parishes still use G&P, Deo gratias. Even the annual paperback music issues and the hymns in the back of the missalettes (another loathesome item) are marginally preferable. Worship III didn't seem all that bad. Gather is loathesome, though at least it still has "At the Lamb's High Feast".

[Ethan Cordray]

Alas, Townsend being a Protestant, he's not likely to be widely used among our Roman Catholic brethren. I've given permission to several of my Catholic friends to freely raid our Wesley pantry, but so far their rulers haven't taken that up.

I would like to mention that the hymnody drives away those of us who are attracted to the theological depth of Catholicism. Of course that's not a very solid reason to be repelled, but Gather isn't a terribly winsome fruit to have drooping from one's tree.

[Isamashii Yuubi (Courageous Grace)]

I have collected old hymnals for a few years now (and am always on the lookout for more), and am proud to say that only two of them are from the last 40 years. One of those is a Baptist hymnal given to me by a friend and the other is my Hymnal 1982 for choir. In my mind, the older the better.

I've even got a protestant Evangelical spanish, "El Himnario" from 1931 (which I find to be a great oddity, only one I've ever seen). Some of my favorite hymnals are the ones written with shape-notes. Difficult to play, but they've got some of the best hymns.

[Thomas Dunbar]

Ethan,
Yes, I was teasing a bit. My parish uses Glory & Praise and my evangelical friends (I just entered the Catholic Church this Easter), knowing how I like Wesley, Aquinas & Townend [and Dylan] must be wondering how I take the G&P hymnody.

I'd probably pick the Collegeville Hymnal if I could say. Of course, the recent Steubenville Canticles hymnal has familiar "protestant" songs but it's way too narrow, in my opinion, as is the Adoremus hymnal (tho in another direction).

[Joe Long]

Ahhh, shape-notes!

"The Southern Harmony" is now online at
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/walker/harmony/files/harmony.html .Lots of great music back there.

[David R]

Wonders, I'll take you up on your offer. This is one from the Protestant side which causes an intense rage to well up in me. To get the true horror of this 'song' you have to understand that the chorus is usually repeated ad infinitum.

Darrell Evans - Trading My Sorrows

I'm trading my sorrow
I'm trading my shame
I'm laying it down for the joy of the Lord

I'm trading my sickness
I'm trading my pain
I'm laying it down for the joy of the Lord

Chorus:
And we say yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord
Yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord
Yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord Amen

I'm pressed but not crushed persecuted not abandoned
Struck down but not destroyed
I'm blessed beyond the curse for his promise will endure
And his joy's gonna be my strength

Though the sorrow may last for the night
His joy comes with the morning

[Joe Long]

David - yes, that one gets annoying (yes, yes, yes, yes, YES it gets annoying, yes, yes, yes,yes, AMEN.)

But surely you know worse! This one is apparently courtesy of somebody/something called "Big Daddy Weave" (no kidding):

"Fields of Grace"

There's a place that I love to run and play
There's a place that I sing new songs of praise

Chorus
Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace
Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace

There's a place that I lose myself within
There's a place that I find myself again

Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace
Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace

There's a place where religion finally dies
There's a place that I lose my selfish pride

Chorus
Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace
Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace

I love my Father, my Father loves me
I dance for my Father, my Father sings over me
And nothing, nothing can take that away from me

There's a place where religion finally dies
There's a place that I lose my selfish pride

Chorus
Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace
Dancin' with my Father God in fields of grace

This one actually made me sing "Give Me That Old-Time Religion" all the way home, and "Give Me That Old-Time Religion" is a tremendous framework for extempraneous lyrical composition. ("Oh, it wasn't saccharine-sappy, no, it wasn't saccharine sappy! It was never saccharine-sappy - it's good enough for me!")

[Clifford Simon]

I'm curious if anyone out there knows of hymns (new or old - but I suspect I'm a fool to hope for a new one) about US forgiving OTHER folks. You know, forgiving your brothers, forgiving your enemies, that sort of stuff.

Happily, I go to a church where we enjoy hymns which do feature the cross, with titles like "Grace Greater than All Our Sins." (Actually, as far as that song goes, "Our" can just as well be understood as "My". The music is third-rate, too. But I'm not complaining.) But then, when I had someone to forgive, I wondered what it would be like to sing about ME forgiving MY BROTHER. That's one step beyond basking in God's grace for free. But, alas, I could not manage to find any such hymn in my Baptist hymnal. I hoped there might be one sunck in between the masterpieces of Isaac Watts and Fanny Crosby - but no. Which I felt to be a great omission.

Omitting the cross, I guess, is just one more step down the slope of narcissism.

[Clifford Simon]

sunck -> snuck

[Joe Long]

There's a wonderful old spiritual:

Not my brother nor my sister, but it's me, o Lord -
Standin' in the need of prayer!
Not my brother nor my sister but it's me, o Lord, Standin' in the need of prayer!

That's as close as it gets, perhaps. We do sing about God forgiving us; to actually sing about forgiving my neighbor might seem, well, a bit gloaty.

[Little Gidding]

The early repertoire of modern dance is filled with enactments of Narcissus, Dionysus and the members of his retinue--Pan and the Naiads. Such are the spirits being evoked, in "love" and "freedom," by the present liturgical phantasmagoria.

One particular source of the dancing comes by way of a 2nd century Gnostic text, the Acts of John, in which Jesus and those in the know do a round dance before the Passion. Like all other Gnostics, the composer of the Acts of John couldn’t tolerate the idea that the savior actually had a real body, or, if he had encased himself in one for a while, that he hadn’t escaped it by the time of the crucifixion. So Jesus does a bait and switch, hiding himself in the Eucharistic bread before the Passion, and sends a projection or a surrogate or a puppet of himself (or a hapless Simon of Cyrene) to stand in for him on the Cross while he “jumps up high” out of his body and tricks the Pharisees et al and all of us non-Pneumatic dullards. The Acts of John was introduced to Theosophist-dilettante Gustav Holst, who wrote the “Hymn of Jesus” based on it. Then Sydney Carter took the same G. R. S. Mead text and morphed it into “The Lord of the Dance.” Nice Shaker tune, but the lyrics?—please! Nevertheless, I dare you to try to remove just this one gnarled little nugget of heretical persiflage from the repertoire of Christian contemporary hymnals. See how your music director, your choir, your pastor responds.

The Gnostic revival is progressed well beyond that, however. Last year I had the odd experience of attending my dear wife’s church (but it could have been almost any sort of church) when the adults and children of the congregation performed in the sanctuary a production of Stephen Schwartz's “Children of Eden.” Everyone else seemed to be simply charmed by how cute the kids were, singing in their animal costumes as they strolled and danced up into the ark. I seemed to be the only one who was at all disturbed by the fact that this musical play depicts the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as a demented and bloodthirsty oaf who abuses and oppresses his children and all of Creation as well. The old coot has to have his Ur-patriarchal consciousness raised by some serious encounter sessions with the poor young woman (the playwright invented this character out of whole cloth, but hey, it felt so right) who is initially told she can’t come onto the ark because she’s not a member of Noah’s tribe and she can’t marry into the family. Do you have any doubt that I would have seemed like some befuddled mossback if I had seriously raised any sort of theological objection to the play—and spoiled the fun? Basilides would be laughing in his cups, if he were still around.

The Cross remains the scandal and the stumbling block it has always been.

[Kamilla]

Ah Judy,

If only I were that kind of Anglican! Last year our church took down the wall cross (big monster from the previous church that met in our space) because the Young Life Leader was afraid it would offend some of the attendees. They couldn't be bothered to use the parish hall, which has no cross, because they "needed" the sound system. Apparently this year, they have gone on to greener pastures.

And AMiA has recently hired Andy Pearcey of Holy Trinity Brompton/ALPHA fame. When he preached at our church earlier this year, explaining his philosophy of "worship", he said he preferred the term "casual" to contemporary!

Blech, Blech and BLECH!

Kamilla

P.S. Still don't know what's "casual" about Worship.

[James A. Altena]

20+ years ago, when I was at the U. of Chicago, Bond Chapel (the small chapel of the Divinity School -- Rockefeller Chapel being the humongous university "chapel" for official events) had a "non-sexist" hymnal in the book racks, with such choice desecrations of classic hymns as:

Praise my soul the God of Heaven;
To God's feet your tribute bring;
Ransomed, healed, restored, forgiven,
Evermore God's praises sing:
Praise God, praise God,
Praise God, praise God,
Praise our God in everything.

and

Joy to the World! Our Christ is come,
On earth, Shalom to bring!

and (from "A Mightly Fortress")

The powers of darkness grim,
We tremble not for them.

I shudder to think what may be there now.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

There are two images that come to my mind when singing "I'm Trading My Sorrows" - equally uncharitable and unhelpful when I'm supposed to be worshipping.

The first is a music video with scenes out of something like Mel Gibson's Passion, except that Jesus, rather than grimacing or focusing steady, is smiling and singing that song. He could be singing the "yes lord, yes lord, yes yes lord" as the nails are going in.

The other is...well...maybe I'll just tell my pastor in private confession. But suffice to say, screams of "yes! yes! yes!" ad nauseum bring other things to mind even less appropriate to church.

[Yaknyeti]

All,

When you post an example of exemplary or bad music, would you mind elaborating a little on it for the sake of your more poetry-deaf brethren (like myself)? I've gained a new appreciation for what goes into church music from these discussions, but probably miss some of the nuances.

My pastor pointed out one piece that fits this thread beautifully: Michael W. Smith's "Above All." The chorus goes:

Crucified, laid behind a stone
You lived to die rejected and alone
Like a rose trampled on the ground
You took the fall
And thought of me
Above all

The last two lines are narcissism in the extreme. I was the person Jesus thought about most on the cross?

I have one question amidst all this criticism. Is it possible for some of these songs to be edifying for personal worship but not for communal settings? One example is this piece by Becky Drake:

What can I give, Lord, back to You
for the things You have given to me?
Grace beyond measure,
the greatest treasure of all, to me?

And I will surrender to You, Lord,
And when I'm weak let me be brought
To my knees; I want to choose
Your way for me
Every dream for Your feet, for Your feet
Every plan, for Your throne, for Your throne

All that I am, Lord, I give to You
Because Jesus You gave everything for me
In dying You saved me
In living You gave me Your way to be

Repeat chorus, many times

Very me-focused, with room for lyrical improvement... but sometimes I need to repeat to God and to myself, many times, that every goal of mine must submit to His will. I've found it very helpful in turning my focus to that direction.

[GL]

Todd Wilken, the LCMS pastor who hosts Issues, etc., has a sermon diagnostic which he applies to selected sermons to determine what they are about and to make a judgment of their merit. Now I will admit that it might be a bit harsh to subject every single sermon to this test, but it does seem to me that it has a great deal of merit in the main. It goes like this: Was Jesus mentioned? If so, was He the subject or the object of the verbs? If the subject, what was He doing?

Seems like a good test to apply to worship music as well. Most CCM passes the first test: Jesus is mentioned. On the second test, however, the subject is often the singer, not the Lord. For the ones which pass that second test, however, the third test is often a problem, as Jesus is helping the singer live a more fulfilling life or is being the singer's sweetheart rather than his Savior dying on the cross. Having said that, I suspect a few CCMs might fair well under the test, though none come immediately to mind. Of course, there is still the issue of the music, but that has already been treated elsewhere recently.

One could argue that the Psalms would not fair well under this test, but if one reads the Psalms with Christ in mind, they do -- See, e.g., Father Reardon's Christ in the Psalms.

[JeanB]

And, yes, Joe Long, I say the quick and the dead too, though even the conservative Presbyterians have changed that too :)

[Fr. Robert McMeekin]

I was so inspired in my perusal of these aforementioned "cutting edge" hymnals that I, just now, wrote two new hymns. Please excuse the offensive terms used in the original hymns' titles...

1. "Onward, faith-based people!"
(Sung to the tune of "Onward, Christian [sic] Soldiers [sic]!"

Onward, faith-based people!
Moving toward "relevancy,"
With theological substance
re-imagin'd expertly.

AND,

2. Our Community's Stated Purpose"
(Sung to the tune of "The Church's [sic] One [sic] Foundation [sic]")

Our community's stated purpose
Is gracious mass-appeal,
It's in our Mission Statement
Reflecting how we feel:
No "lifestyle choice" appalls us,
C'mon you're welcome here!
Throw out that moral compass,
There's no one here to steer.

[Bill R]

You folks realize, I trust, that you're on the path to excommunication from the Church of What's Happenin' Now. You've been warned....

[Michael]

Yaknyeti,

With regard to the song "Above All," which, incidentally, was not penned by Smith, but rather is one of those modern "worship songs" that makes its circuitous route to be covered by every "worship artist" imaginable, thus selling a few thousand albums via mass appeal at LifeWay stores...um, anyway, it was actually written by Lenny LeBlanc and Paul Baloche, though I tell you, verily, that I have a point I was making:

The last two lines as "narcissism in the extreme?" I think not. Though I cradle a particular enmity towards that song, it is not on merit of narcissism. Indeed, Kutless makes a similar note in their song "Sea of Faces" (which, for all its lyrical profundity, or lack thereof, at least still professes the presence of Christ bodily in the Eucharist) says it thusly:

If only my one heart
Was all You gained from
All it cost
Well, I know
You would have still been there
With a reason
To willingly offer Your life

I think it's more a statement of the simultaneous intimacy and omnibenevolence that is God. We are not merely parts of the whole redeemed; we are individually loved.

[Wolf N. Paul]

Yaknyeti, Michael,

I agree with you both concerning "Above All" -- it probably is not meant to be narcissistic, but I suspect that many read, sing and understand it that way.

In an attempt to deal with poor self-image counsellors will often tell a person, "If you were the only person alive Jesus would have died for you!", and this song makes the same point.

I'm just afraid that those of us who have no trouble with our self-image will take this wrongly, which is why I refuse to sing this song or to choose it for a service when I am in charge.

[Judy Warner]

If only I were that kind of Anglican!

What's preventing you from being one, Kamilla?

[austin]

The hymn that especially irritates me begins "Go be justice......" Go be--what? The grammar is so incorrect, the poetry so grating to the ears and the moral injunctions soound like bureaucratic rules.

[deniece]

I grew up in the Church of God in the Caribbean.

It is a mix of Pentacostal and Evangelical in worship.

The songs include hymns and choruses but as time has progressed far more choruses than hymns. The choruses get more banal every year and are repeated over and over.

I find it maddening and have begun attending an Anglo - Catholic church just for the retention of hymns with words I know from memory.

My experience of university in the UK during the last 5 years introduced me to new songs and while some are rubbish I enjoy some as well. The dis - satisfaction with trite, heretical lyrics seems quite widespread among the churches I attended.

I must admit to having been spared that disaster made of Praise my soul the King of Heaven mentioned above. I would have left after the first line. I have known that hymn most of my 25 years. I have never seen a gender - neutral hymnal.

This is one of my favourites and I think its contemporary.

1
See what a morning gloriously bright
With the dawning of hope in Jerusalem
Folded the grave clothes, tomb filled with light
As the angels announce, Christ is risen!
See God's salvation plan
Wrought in love, born in pain, paid in sacrifice
Fulfilled in Christ the man
For he lives, Christ is risen from the dead!

2
See Mary weeping, where is he laid?
As in sorrow she turns from the empty tomb
Hears a voice speaking, calling her name
It's the Master, the Lord, raised to life again!
The voice that spans the years
Speaking life, stirring hope, bringing peace to us
Will sound till he appears
For he lives, Christ is risen from the dead

3
One with the Father, Ancient of Days
With the Spirit that clothes faith with certainty
Honour and Blessing, Glory and Praise
To the King crowned with power and authority
And we are raised with him
Death is dead, love has won, Christ has conquered
And we shall reign with him
For he lives, Christ is risen from the dead.

I dont know enough about music to describe the tune but it is upbeat especially at the end of the stanzas declaring that Christ is risen.

The Cross is not specifically mentioned but it is there nonetheless.

Deniece

[John Mark]

Songs about the cross may be few and far between but there are a few being written these days. Here is the chorus from one-
Oh, the wonderful cross
Oh, the wonderful cross
Bids me come and die and
find that I may truly live
Oh, the wonderful cross
Oh, the wonderful cross
All who gather here by grace
draw near and bless Your name

Written by and for the Praise and Worship crowd, but
a compelling song nonetheless.

[David T. Koyzis]

It seems to me that it was Fr. Neuhaus who once said that God allows bad liturgy so that western Christians living in otherwise comfortable circumstances will know what it is to suffer for the cause of Christ.

[Gene Godbold]

Dear Fr. McKeemkin,
Your parody of "The Church's One Foundation" is excellent. The nonbastardized version is one of my favorite songs (lyrically it is one of the best), though my all-time favorite is probably "At the Name of Jesus". Incidentally I have a brother (Van) who worships at an OCA parish (Holy Apostles) in Columbia, SC.

Dear Thomas Dunbar,
I suspect we must somehow be related as my middle name is Dunbar (as is my father's first name). I live just north of Charlottesville now, but was raised in SC.

[Thomas]

Who needs "Lord of the Dance" when we already have the perfectly orthodox "Tomorrow shall be my dancing day"?

[James A. Altena]

The bit attributed to Fr. Neuhaus is actually an Ambrose Bierce style definition that has been around much longer, and I've quoted on MC before:

Liturgist (n): An affliction sent by God such that, in a time of no overt persecution, no Catholic need be denied the privilege of suffering for the faith.

------------------------

Dear GL,

The rule you quote from Todd Wilken applies equally well to prayers. The so-called "ex tempore" prayers of many modern evangelicals -- which are now so hackneyed, trite, sterile, and formulaic as to not even qualify for the title "ex tempore" -- typically run:

"Father God, I/we just want to praise you for being {A, B, C} and I/we just want to thank your for [D, E, F] and I/we just ask that you would just do [G, H, J, K]," etc.

I/we is the constant subject, God the constant object, and the whole larded with a meretricious texture of false humility.

Which prayers also show what they think is meant when they say that one is "just"-ified by faith, by the prayers of the "just".

[V-Dawg]

Here's another bad song nomination, one I think will put protestants in the lead:

Our Love Is Loud

When we sing
Hear our songs, to You
When we dance
Feel us move, to You
When we laugh
Fill our smiles, with You

Pre-Chorus:
When we lift our voices
Louder still
Can You hear us?
Can You feel?

Chorus:
We love You, Lord
We love You
We love You
We love You, Lord
We love You
We love You

When we sing [LOUD!]
Hear our songs, to You
When we dance [ROUND!]
Feel us move, to You
When we laugh [ALOUD!]
Fill our smiles, with You

(Pre-Chorus)

(Chorus)

Bridge:
And our love is big
Our love is loud
Fill this place with this love now [4x]
And our love is big
Our love is loud
Fill our lungs
To sing it now...

(Chorus [4x])

Out:
We lift our voices louder still
Our God is near
Our God is here

--David Crowder Band
Baal-worship, anyone?

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

"...Glory and Praise, perhaps the most commonly used Roman Catholic hymnal in the United States and Canada.
...
Meanwhile, a part of my own crucifixion seems to be the necessity of listening to it all, and watching the performers. Silence would be infinitely better."

Professor Esolen, may I safely infer that there are times during mass that you're not a happy worshipper?

;-)

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

Wow, V-Dawg - that one is amazing!

[Little Gidding]

The liturgical dancers would heartily agree with Tertullian's " "The flesh is the hinge of salvation," insofar as they wish for us all to "get in touch with our bodies," and use our bodies in worship. Why then should we not bend our knees and kneel and prostrate? That represents the humbling and subjection of the flesh to God, rather than its own glorification. If we are to affirm that the flesh is the hinge of salvation, that is, to affirm the Incarnation, and God's embodiment as fully Man, then, by all means we should lift high the Cross and bring our bodies into submission. But the so-called "spirit of Vatican II" that drives the liturgical dancers makes them avert their eyes or even flee from the Cross. That in itself is enough to suggest the identity of that spirit. It does not rejoice in the Incarnation, but sees the body as a casing and puppet of the real self, a disposable instrument of the immaterial Psyche, a mere whirlwind of signs that may be played with and reordered and redesigned at our own will.

[Little Gidding]

"Can you hear us?
Can you feel?"

Sung to the tune of "Tommy" by The Who? That Jesus ... the deaf, dumb, and blind kid ... locked inside that useless body ... sure plays a mean pinball.

[Susan Peterson]

Shortly before I left my territorial parish and went east, I had asked the pastor if we could sing some "more traditional hymns." My requests to the choir director had been, literally, laughed at. He apparently told them to do one more tradtitional hymn at each mass. So I was happy to hear "Faith of our Fathers" announced. But not happy when we got to the second stanza which read, "Faith of our Mothers."

This hymn was written by an Oratorian, Fr. Faber, about the English Catholic martrys. Did the idiot who rewrote his lines really believe that Fr. Faber was not including, say, Margaret Clitheroe (mother of 6 who was pressed to death while pregnant with her 7th child) among the "fathers" he was referring to? Or that any of us don't know that women were included in the reference?

The narrow minded presumption of imposing this silly transient fad of the chattering classes on a traditional hymn nauseates me.

But I have to say that it is even worse that this fad has now been imposed by the Ruthenians on something so ancient as the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostum, so that "For He is gracious, and loves Mankind," has become, "For He is good, and loves us all." My priest looks as if he has a bad taste in his mouth when he sings these words.

Susan Peterson

[Mrs. B.]

I have in front of me a copy of the Celebration Hymnal that my church uses on Sunday evenings. I'm not sure why we are using this instead of the Baptist Hymnal we use during the other services of the week. Jack W. Hayford wrote the Foreword in which he states:

"Don't just sing from this book---strategize with it!"

How do you strategize with a hymnal?

This hymnal does contain some wonderful hymns, but it also contains the banal and repetitive choruses my husband calls 7-ll songs (songs with seven words that are repeated eleven times.)

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

I actually like the older repetitive choruses I sang growing up in the Assemblies of God. They had words worth repeating eleven times:

Exhibit A:
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases.
His mercies never come to an end
They are new every morning
New every morning
Great is thy faithfulness, Oh Lord
Great is thy faithfulness

Exhibit B:
Bless the Lord, oh my soul
And all that is within me bless his holy name
He has done great things, Alleluia
He has done great things, Alleluia
He has done great things, bless his holy name

Exhibit C:
From the rising of the sun
To the going down of the same
The Lord's name is to be praised
From the rising of the sun
To the going down of the same
The Lord's name is to be praised
Praise ye the Lord
Praise him all ye servants of the Lord
Praise the name of the Lord
Blessed be the name of the Lord
From this time forth
And forevermore

Exhibit D:
I will call upon the Lord
Who is worthy to be praised
I will call upon the Lord
Who is worthy to be praised
So shall I be saved from my enemies
The Lord livith
And blessed be the rock
And let the God of my salvation be exalted
The Lord livith
And blessed be the rock
And let the God of my salvation be exalted

[Little Gidding]

One "strategizes" with a hymnal by deploying its sentiments as a weapon to subvert the Faith and direct it elsewhere.

[Rob Grano]

WFO, I remember those songs from my A/G days -- I think they're pretty much straight from the Psalms, which is why they're not banal. Of course, nowhere in the Psalter are there instructions to sing them 47 times each, not forgetting always to include the holy key change somewhere.

We had some bad ones, too, though:

"Jehovah Jireh, my provider, his grace is sufficient for me, For Me, FOR ME!!!"

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

Well, we would repeat them something more like 7 times. You can't tell me THAT isn't scriptural. ;-)

[Rob Grano]

"Well, we would repeat them something more like 7 times..."

You're right -- it only seemed like 47. Or 70 X 7.

[Gintas]

Simple choruses repeated endlessly are meant to induce an altered state of consciousness. It's creepy.

[Mrs. B.]

It's not so much the repetition that is the problem. I think the problem is that so many times the choruses seem to be more appropriate for a youth group campfire devotional.

[Joe Long]

Aren't we warned against "vain repetitions?" I agree with Gintas: endlessly repeated songs are often used to induce a trancelike state, and the results are often "creepy". (One common creepy result is the "passing of the hat" with the congregation in a highly suggestible state.)

The best of the choruses are the Scripture songs, of course, and "Wonders" gives examples. The worst unite bad grammar, bad theology and maudlin sentiment...

[GL]

Joe,

What is your view of metrical psalms? I find them to be of varying quality, but believe that in most cases, the "translator/paraphraser" still does a better job than most CCMs and many hymns. I don't understand why "Bible-Christians" don't sing the Psalms and Scriptural canticles much more than they do. It seems like a contradiction in what is professed and what is practiced.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

I really don't see anything creepy about repeating scripture over and over again while focusing on the glory of the Lord. Are the angels who sing day and night "holy holy holy" creepy? Maybe its my pentecostal upbringing, but I recall the worship of my childhood to be filled with wonder and awe, using, yes, choruses.

[Joe Long]

GL, I think the old Scottish Psalter is a treasure - but the amount of musical improvement I can do is limited: I have strong opinions about lyrics but am lucky to sing on-key. Had I the time or talent I'd be trying to resurrect the Scottish Psalter AND to promote the old shaped-note songs...

I'm no Hebraist but the sense of the Psalms seems to be preserved very well in the metrical versions (at least compared with the English versions!). The meterical Psalms were written by the reverent - though they were not above forcing a rhyme or two, of course -

"Scripture Songs" are a great aid to memory, as well, and I think that was one of the Scottish Psalter's main purposes. (When some colonial figure is said to have memorized "the whole of David", I suspect it's the rhyming version he's mastered).

For the truly bold - and particularly at youth events, preferably those in the woods - Scottish Psalter Psalms tend to fit standard call-and-response Army single- or double-time cadences. For instance, the tune of "C-130, rollin' down the strip!" fits Psalm 144 ("O blessed ever be the Lord")...

[JackONeill]

None of the modern songs cited here rhyme. I may be a simpleton, but it seems to me that hymns that I remember, and look forward to singing, rhyme as well as scan. They're all old ones, of course, as am I.

[horace]

What about Days of Elijah--

These are the days of Elijah
Declaring the Word of the Lord
And these are the days of Your servant Moses
Righteousness being restored
And though these are days of great trials
Of famine and darkness and sword
Still we are the voice in the desert crying
Prepare ye the way of the Lord

(chorus with clapping)
Behold He comes riding on the clouds
Shining like the sun at the trumpet call
Lift your voice it's the Year of Jubilee
Out of Zion's hill salvation comes

These are the days of Ezekiel
The dry bones becoming as flesh
And these are the days of Your servant David
Rebuilding a temple of praise
And these are the days of the harvest
The fields are as white in Your world
And we are the laborers in Your vineyard
Declaring the Word of the the Lord

(repeat chorus)
(modulate and repeat chorus)

Are these compound metaphors?

[horace]

I forgot to add the "woo's"...

In the chorus of Days of Elijah, you have to add a falsetto "woo!" on the skipped beat, like this--

"Behold He comes (woo!) riding on the clouds..."

[Ron]

Like most conservative Christians, I tend to spend most of my time around people who ridicule this sort of nonsense. But is it capable of rational defense? Is EVERYONE who likes the modern Roman liturgy in its most readily available form (with guitars and pseudo-folk tunes) a moron? Help me out here! I really want to be charitable and open minded!

[Nicholas]

I wholeheartedly second AE's insightful comments on this hymnal. I recently encountered it during a trip to the Outer Banks of NC at a church in Buxton (the nearest Anglican church being 65 miles away... if it's OK for Tony Blair, I hope it's OK for me!) I've been a choral singer for 30 of my 43 years and I found it unbearable to make my self sing. The biggest stumbling block for me swinging the Tiber is not papal infalibility or the Marian Dogmas - it is things like "Gloral and Praise" and "Gather".

Kyrie Eleison May the Holy Father rescue us all from such nonsense!

[Tragic Christian]

From an ex-Unitarian ...

They "revised" the UU hymnal about 15 years ago, and that was one of the reasons I was pushed out. Even a friend of mine -- an atheist and yet a Unitarian Universalist -- complained about the changes made to the Christmas music (!).

The lyrical travesties are innumerable, but there were several overarching rules: dance as much as possible (apparently); try not to make "darkness" = anything bad (anything bad = "maleness"); boot out an old favorite if we can include some off-meter thing in a language nobody understands for "inclusion" purposes; change "Father" to "Mother" if you can get away with it; power-down Jesus and eliminate God if you can. A mushy "spirit" is OK ("spirit of life," for example, not that we actually believe in spirits!).

My personal favorite was the change to "O Come All Ye Faithful" -- rendered in English throughout, but instead of "O Come Let Us Adore Him, Christ the Lord" we suddenly sing, "Venite Adoramus, Dominum" -- which is less offensive to a Unitarian, I guess, even tho' it means the EXACT SAME THING in Latin!

[Michael]

Joe,

Interesting take on the metrical psalms, since Hebraic poetry isn't metrical or rhyming, but rides on parallelism and metaphor (beautifully, as the case may sometimes be, but all the same).

John Mark,

The chorus you cited from "The Wonderful Cross" is actually an addition to an old hymn called "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross." The verses to said song are directly lifted stanzas from the hymn, the chorus being Chris Tomlin's interpolation. The chorus calling us to die at the cross and in so doing bless the name of the Lord in true life is a true sentiment, but I wouldn't credit Tomlin with the theme. He basically took the theme from the hymn he was updating. Compare some of Tomlin's original pieces:

"Unchaning" from the album Not to Us:

Great is Your faithfulness
Great is Your faithfulness
You never change
You never fail, O God

True are Your promises
True are Your promises
You never change
You never fail, O God

So we raise up holy hands
To praise the Holy One
Who was and is and is to come

Wide is Your love and grace
Wide is Your love and grace
You never change
You never fail, O God

You were, You are
You will always be

"How Great is Our God" from the album Arriving:

From the highest of heights to the depths of the sea
Creation's revealing Your majesty
From the colors of fall to the fragrance of spring
Every creature unique in the song that it sings
All exclaiming

Indescribable, uncontainable,
You placed the stars in the sky and You know them by name.
You are amazing God
All powerful, untameable,
Awestruck we fall to our knees as we humbly proclaim
You are amazing God

Who has told every lightning bolt where it should go
Or seen heavenly storehouses laden with snow
Who imagined the sun and gives source to its light
Yet conceals it to bring us the coolness of night
None can fathom

And if that doesn't cover his banality, consider his interpolated chorus to "Amazing Grace:" My chains are gone / I've been set free / My God, my Savior has ransomed me / And like a flood His mercy reigns / Unending love, amazing grace. Ew.

V-Dawg,

That one song is such an unfair view of Crowder's songs that it almost hurts (though, admittedly, it is a horrible piece of work). Let's give him a bump back up with this:

"O Praise Him" from the album Illuminate:

Turn your ear to Heaven
And hear the noise inside
The sound of angel's songs
The sound of angel's awe
And all this for a King
We could join and sing
All for Christ the King

How constant, how divine
This song of ours will rise
Oh how constant, how divine
This great love of ours will rise

O praise Him
O praise Him
He is holy
He is holy

Turn your gaze to heaven
And raise a joyous noise
The sound of salvation come
The sound of rescued ones
And all this for a King
Angels join to sing
All for Christ our King

O praise Him
O praise Him
He is holy
He is holy

How infinite and sweet
This great love so rescuing
Oh how infinitely sweet
This great love that has redeemed
As one we sing

Hallelujah
Hallelujah

No one seems to write about the fact that we're not just singing in church, but rather joining with the choirs of angels and saints before, mystically connected to them in our worship, so that we are not in separate places. Stuart waxes better about this than me, but it's certainly a big point in favor of Orthodoxy.

Crowder's interpolation to Hank Williams' "I Saw the Light" is just as good as any hymn: When death takes me down / and I breathe here no more / My anthem will sound on that eternal shore / I'll join with the angels / Singing on high: great, Lord, is Your Light.

Not to mention, Crowder is not, strictly speaking, a hymnist. Are there any Catholic CCM writers with which to compare him, because I daresay in such a case, Protestants might come out ahead...

Horace,

I sang that song when I was visiting a friend in Texas (attending his church for two weeks whilst there), complete with the "woo!" I am thankful that he has come here for college and I have not gone there. ::shudder::

[Ethan Cordray]

Michael, a quibble with your new Crowder example: I think of "noise" as having a connotation of chaos, like Lewis uses it in the Screwtape Letters in describing hell (if I remember rightly). "Sound" would have worked there better. And overall, I can't say it strikes me as too great an improvement over the earlier one in terms of lyrical banality; thematic superiority, I will grant.

[David R.]

Michael, you've hit on a trend I've seen recently which really gets me going. I absolutely hate it when they take a wonderful old hymn and bastardize it by adding verses or putting in a chorus, or something like that (Chris Tomlin is a repeat offender in this regard). It's one thing to write lousy music, but when you take a wonderful old hymn and ruin it... why?! So far I've seen violations of: It Is Well With My Soul, All Hail The Power Of Jesus' Name, Be Thou My Vision, Amazing Grace and several others. It's really frustrating as you think for a moment that you're going to get to sing a great hymn and then they start into the bastardized version...

Wonders wrote:
There are two images that come to my mind when singing "I'm Trading My Sorrows" ...
I've never actually been able to bring myself to sing that song. I usually just stand there trying to pretend I'm somewhere else. Which bring me to an interesting point. Whenever I look around during "Trading My Sorrows" or other songs like that, at most one third of people are actually singing, and fewer still with any particular enjoyment. However, when they trot out a hymn the entire building practically shakes. Which leads me think that whoever selects the music is far more interested in performance than in leading worship.

[Michael]

Ethan,

Noise as anarchy and noise as cacophony are two very different things. I support cacophony insofar as it is intentioned; I do not support anarchy. We are not told merely to make beautiful music; we are told to raise a joyous noise unto the Lord by the psalmist (Psalm 98, but I'm sure you already knew that). I don't think the use of the same command was incidental.

[David R.]

Here's a hymn which certainly talks about the cross. I don't hear it very often, but it's great. And it gets special kudos for managing to gracefully put "Eli, lama sabachthani" into verse!

Behold! Behold the Lamb of God

(I believe it's by Richard Jukes, though there are a few slightly different versions. Also, I've only included some of the verses, there are several more.)

Behold, behold the Lamb of God,
On the cross, on the cross!
He sheds for you his precious blood
On the cross, on the cross!
O hear his all important cry,
"Eli, lama sabachthani;"
Draw near and see your Savior die
On the cross, on the cross!

Come, sinners, see him lifted up
On the cross, on the cross!
For you he drinks the bitter cup
On the cross, on the cross!
The rocks do rend, the mountains quake,
While Jesus doth atonement make,
While Jesus suffers for our sake
On the cross, on the cross!

And now the mighty deed is done
On the cross, on the cross!
The battle's fought, the victory's won
On the cross, on the cross!
To heaven he turns his dying eyes;
'Tis finished! now the Conqueror cries;
Then bows his sacred head and dies
On the cross, on the cross!

Where'er I go I'll tell the story
Of the cross, of the cross!
Of nothing else my soul shall glory
Save the cross, save the cross!
Yea, this my constant theme shall be
Through time and in eternity,
That Jesus tasted death for me
On the cross, on the cross!

[Michael]

David,

Updating hymns is symptomatic of the church climate, especially in regards to that trendy element known as the "emergent" sector, which claims to be engaging the ancient faith in a contemporary paradigm (they are fond of using big words like paradigm, it is exotic and cool). Because the claim is to engaging the ancient faith, it is practical to take from that noble tradition (and Tradition) certain facets, in this case song. But instead of assuming the faith of our fathers, we are making our fathers assume the faith of our own generation...

I'm not entirely opposed to this "updating" of hymns, but as a trend, I think it indicates a deep-seated sickness. In one case, it may just be a sneeze to discard something unwanted like an allergen; in this case, I think it's a sneeze that shows us an infection akin to a spiritual flu.

[Rob Grano]

The endless singing of choruses can lead to an altered state of consciousness, working the congregation into a sort of manufactured ecstasy. This, in my opinion, is more akin to shamanism than to true worship. I've been in services where the same short 16-bar chorus was sung repeatedly for twenty minutes or more, causing people to 'zone out', like folks do in drum circles and raves.

It's also notable that it's almost never the slow, "worship" songs that are repeated ad infinitum, but the fast "praise" songs. This makes the worship service look and feel like a rock concert or a pep rally, or perhaps a combination of the two.

[Pr Dave Poedel, ST]

If I may, I highly recommend a new hymnal from that little sectarian bunch of evangelical catholics called The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (terrible name, I confess) called "Lutheran Service Book", Concordia, 2006. I dare say you will find fine hymnody which included much about the Cross and God's forgiveness for the sake of Jesus.

[Michael]

Pr. Poedel,

The new LSB is lovely, and the new liturgy for the Divine Service settings is superior to that of Lutheran Worship, with the exception of the sung response to the pre-Communion blessing:

(P): The peace of the Lord be with you.
(C): And with your spirit.

There's something that bugs me about using "with your spirit" instead of "and also with you" that I cannot place my finger on. Perhaps it is being used to the old liturgy, or perhaps it is that it lacks the congregational mindset that the Pastor is part of the congregation, not merely its head, reducing him to pure spirit (instead of the peace of the Lord accompanying him in mind and heart as much as soul).

On the hymn front...ah, a fair selection, though I am convinced that hymnals should just be getting thicker and thicker, not staying the same size. They cut some old hymns to add some newer ones (selectively, thank God), instead of just keeping the old hymns and adding those newer ones which were worthy of being place in a hymnal.

[Clifford Simon]

David R.,

I second your observation that Chris Tomlin has ruined "When I Survey," musically speaking. He sings the words of Isaac Watts plainsong over a solo electirc bass. The bass plays the same note 4x each measure, continuously, during the whole of Watts' words. No change in pitch, no change in rythm. (If that doesn't put you in an altered state of consciousness, show me what does!)

That is why he HAD to add the interpolated words: to break the monotony. The interpolated words don't add any content that Watts didn't already say, and better. In fact, they just interrupt the picture that Watts is progressively painting stanza by stanza. Regardless, the result is that the hymn "When I Survey" has more musical content in one line ("When I Survey the Wonderous Cross" - 6 words) than Tomlin's version has in the entire song.

I propose a rule: If you're not going to write music, then don't write hymns.

[Rob Grano]

Michael, I may be wrong, but I think '...and with your spirit' is actually the older, more traditional usage.

[Michael]

Rob,

My copy of Lutheran Worship (the blue ones of 1982) says otherwise, though it may be returning to the The Lutheran Hymnal liturgy (the reds of 1941, reprinted in 1956) or The Evangelical Lutheran Hymnbook (the old green ones from 1931, if I recall), the use of which I have never experienced, except once at my grandparents' church as a child and which I cannot readily recall, being quite occupied with my oh-so-entertaining CPH children's bulletin complete with crossword, hidden pictures, etc.

"And with your spirit" may be used in the Lutheran Book of Worship (the green ones that were meant to be inter-synodical standards published in 1978 and still used by the ELCA), but the LCMS pulled out of that partnership prior to publishing due to certain disagreements with the LCA and the Seminex crowd, so I have to wonder how much a hymnal's editing board would be inclined to take from the book. Admittedly, though, the LBW was jointly prepared by the LCMS, so it doesn't seem as bad.

[Little Gidding]

Et cum spiritu tuo.

[Michael]

>>Et cum spiritu tuo.<<

If indeed the LSB is returning to a more ancient liturgy, I support that fully. However, I am not educated in liturgical theology, and so any time something changes, I am not sure whether it is going forward or backward.

As it stands, my distaste for "and with your spirit" is not just a matter of change, but the implication behind it, as I noted before. Since Lutherans don't believe in a separate priesthood, but rather the elevation of one of the priesthood of the baptized to be the leader of select congregations, I worry about anything that would elevate the pastor to anything other than same. (Not that anyone gives this much thought to liturgical theology, so I doubt it matters much.)

I shall have to read the report to the synod by the hymnal committee, which is available online.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

I think, Michael, you may be reading too much into it. I read it more akin to the poetry of the psalms or the proverbs: "There are six things the Lord hates; seven that are detestable to him." In that sense the older one is far better poetry.

The Lord be with you.
And with your spirit.

We're not saying that the congregation doesn't have spirits. ;-) It's just a poetic way of focusing on several aspects of the person's being. Let God be with you - yes, in your very spirit!

The change isn't necessarily better or worse theology, but the older one is definitely better poetry. Updating thees and thous is fine, in my opinion - screwing up the poetry is not.

[Gintas]

There's too much meek acquiescence to all this, like we're a bunch of old Episcopalians at a tea social, singing a gutted version of Kumbaya, politely choking down thin prison camp gruel.

I want someone to pull the tablecloth. I want to see dishes crashing on the floor. I want to see food fly. I want to see the table overturned, sending people sprawling. I want to see someone pushed into the dessert cart. I want to see the chef and waiters routed and banished to exile at some remote outpost, doomed to eat butter-free vegetables and fluffy sugar-free dishes forever.

[Little Gidding]

I too would like to see some dishes crashing and tables overturned. Apparently, it won't take much, though, to make it happen. The order is rapidly fadin, and the first one now will later (and soon) be last, for the times they are a-changin.' And if you don't think that the regnant musical order is brittle and about to break, I offer you this anecdote:

http://orthfullycatholic.blogspot.com/2007/07/high-masslow-mass.html

[Tony Esolen]

Ah, good people, keep those awful hymns a-coming!

I've written a 2-part series on the bad Catholic hymns -- not sure where to send it --, on their BETRAYAL of genuine folk music, and their narcissism (which cuts to the heart of their inverted theology). So I'd like ammunition from other quarters.

Do I think it's impossible to write a decent hymn now? Heavens, no. I think that the lyrics of one Timothy Dudley-Smith are quite good. But, surprise surprise, Timothy Dudley-Smith is not so popular among the collectors of hymns for Glory and Praise et al. I'll bet that Richard Wilbur, with his delicate ear for rhythm and for poetic climax, could write a few.

I'll admit that a couple of the contemporary songs printed in the comments are admirable from the point of view of popular piety -- that is, they are about the Cross. But is anyone here going to defend them as poetry? I mean, if you ever heard me on the piano, you might well admit that I'm trying my hardest to give praise to the Lord -- but you wouldn't want me playing before a congregation. Quality does matter....

The hymnal we use in our RC church in Rhode Island is the 1940 Episcopalian Hymnal. God bless him, our pastor brought these in, cleared out the "cowboy music" (his term), and put a gold sticker reading "Property of Sacred Heart Church" right on the first page, over "Copyright, Episcopal Church USA"!

[labrialumn]

I haven't had a chance to look closely at the LSB. Is it PC'd at all?

Michael, et cum spiritus tuo is the -original-. And with you is the modern.

Anything done by committee. Maybe especially in the LCMS, is kinda scary.

There is at least one "Jesus Is My Girlfriend" song in the blue LW, but it dates to the 16th century.

The most egregious example of 'worship' I can think of though, was when the local independent baptist church (now renamed for a piece of geography, though I don't believe that they actually worship it) was when the band, on the high altar platform, with the spotlights on them as usual, sang "YHWH, I just wanna say, I believe in You" with, as I gather from "When Harry Met Sally" a woman's orgiastic sigh, sampled into the keyboard for the percussion.

God's grace and mercy are amazing. They were not immediately reduced to carbon ash.

[GL]

I have a copy of the LSB. I am not Lutheran and so have not worshiped using it and I have not review it in its entirety, but it impresses me as a very fine product.

[Susan Peterson]

Mr Esolen, I was pleased to read that your parish uses the 1940 hymnal. Is your pastor a former Anglican? Otherwise, I wonder what introduced him to that book?

Back in 1972 or so, 4 former Episcopalians including myself were confirmed in the Catholic Church (having been received by profession a few months earlier.) This was done by the priests who instructed us (which is something the bishop can delegate, although this isn't well known.)
We got to plan the ceremony, aside from the fixed parts, and to that end we brought piles of 1940 hymnals borrowed from the Episcopal parish down the street, so that we would have decent music to sing. At one point, after a hymn, the priest commented, "I can tell you aren't all Catholics; you know how to sing and aren't afraid sing loud enough to be heard. That was really very nice, thank you. " I wish I remembered which hymns we had chosen, but I don't.
Susan Peterson

[Little Gidding]

Our RC Church recently got rid of the old and brought in the new, stocking for us now the "St. Michael's Hymnal," which is actually pretty good, although I'm not sure that it's *quite* up to the level of the Episcopalians' bounty of fine stuff in their hymnals. But then, I have a fantasy about not doing hymns during Mass at all, but rather just singing the Mass, or at least part of it, and allowing that to serve for the music. Then, for a separate service, say on Wednesday nights, completely apart from the Mass and even maybe in a parish hall, people could sing some fine hymns and gospel music together. Most of that would probably have been composed by Protestants--or even, with some careful selection for theological clarity--by Shakers or others. Black gospel music would be great and even shape-note tunes--although, again, you'd have to sift the lyrics (you wouldn't want to be singing something like "The Romish Maid" at the parish hymn-sing). And for those who might think that I'd be happy with the RC repertoire as I knew it in my youth, I have to admit that I believe that my spiritual well-being would not at all be harmed if I didn't ever hear Schubert's Ave Maria again or some of the more lugubrious stuff we used to sing at Stations of the Cross or other devotions. And to the commenter who asked whether this group of commenters saw *any* use for guitars, etc., I'd have to say that yes, certainly, there is a good use for them, as there was for cithara and drum. But unless the lyrics are good and solid and beautiful, the accompanying instrument, whatever it is, is merely secondary. Guitars are being picked on here, if at all, because they were brought in to accompany the "Hootenanny Mass," so beloved of Rembert Weakland, who seemed to be extraordinarily touched by being surrounded by boys singing "He's got the Archabbot [Weakland] in His hands." Guitars, then, were the instrument for the colonization of the Mass by music that was dubious from the very get go, and so it has continued. But I wouldn't "blame" the guitar for that.

[Monica]

Nobody has mentioned Taize songs/hymns. I have never experienced them in a corporate worship setting, but I have experienced them in a small group setting and I also listen to the CDs on my own. I find them very meditative and reverent, even though they are repetitive. Is repetition *necessarily* bad?

"Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom" is my favourite.

[luthien]

Michael, "and with thy spirit" is a perfectly orthodox phrase; so orthodox, in fact, that it's Orthodox:) We only say it like ten times in every single service...in Greek it's "kai to pnevmati sou" which most definitely translates to "and with they spirit" rather than "and also with you," the latter "translation" being a modernism which makes my hair stand on end.

[Katherine Philips]

No, repetition is not necessarily bad - not in the least. It's a key feature of many traditional African songs and (later) hymns, as well as many of the best African-American spirituals. The trick to good repetition is having excellent music and performing it well - the area in which contemporary Christian songs often fail miserably.

On the subject of specifically Catholic hymnody: there are a number of great medieval, plainchant-derived hymn tunes still in our Protestant hymnals, such as "Of the Father's Love Begotten" and the "Agincourt Hymn." As for poetry, the words of "O Sacred Head" (usually sung to one of Bach's "Passion Chorale" settings) are some of the most cross-centered out there, and they're attributed to St. Bernard of Clairvaux. (Bach, by the way, harmonized a number of older tunes himself, both sacred and secular, and these harmonizations appear regularly in Lutheran hymnody.)

I don't attend Catholic masses often enough to be familiar with the hymnals, though. The Catholics in this discussion will have to enlighten me: do you still sing the old tunes or verses in your services?

[Michael]

Luthien,

Fascinatingly enough, the Greek word for "spirit" (πνευμα) as well the Hebrew word for same (rooah--aside: does anybody know the Hebrew text for this, and would it actually display if I typed it?) can be accurately translated as "wind" or "breath." (Indeed, from the same Greek root, we get the word pneumatic.) The ancient understanding of the spirit as the breath--breath of life no less--was not accidental nor poor, though perhaps a little scientifically uneducated. Spirit encompassed much more in the ancient church than it does in the mental associations among modern congregants.

If one is to properly understand the use of "spirit" (πνευμα), the theology must be properly exposited in church. Thus, despite its lack of verbatim translation, "And also with you" encompasses a broader sense of the word "spirit," which a proper liturgy should. I don't think the majority of people realize this, and so I am concerned with something enters into the church vernacular without being properly understood.

It is akin to my seventh grade teacher telling me not to use "awesome" because it was a useless word with no real meaning to it, but of course it means that what I was describing was full of awe, inspiring reverence and perhaps fear; the modern usage of such a word has deprived it of its full meaning, and "spirit" has suffered a similar fate among mainstream denominations, though perhaps not among the Orthodox, simply due to a sort of definitional atrophy.

It is not the orthodoxy of the term I am worried about, but how it is understood in the context of the liturgy.

Wonders commented:

I think, Michael, you may be reading too much into it.

Well, that may be, but we should at least encourage people to think about it, to wrestle with it. It is acquiescence that has allowed to the bastardization of hymns that was the topic Dr. Esolen's post. Letting something slide simply because you "read too much into it" is damnable.

As I said, however, "if indeed the LSB is returning to a more ancient liturgy, I support that fully." I am merely concerned about its reception and understanding among those who are not given to theological inquiry.

[James A. Altena]

">>Et cum spiritu tuo.<<

"If indeed the LSB is returning to a more ancient liturgy, I support that fully. However, I am not educated in liturgical theology, and so any time something changes, I am not sure whether it is going forward or backward.

"As it stands, my distaste for 'and with your spirit' is not just a matter of change, but the implication behind it, as I noted before. Since Lutherans don't believe in a separate priesthood, but rather the elevation of one of the priesthood of the baptized to be the leader of select congregations, I worry about anything that would elevate the pastor to anything other than same. (Not that anyone gives this much thought to liturgical theology, so I doubt it matters much.)"

Michael, I'm afraid that you don't know whereof you speak here. "And with thy spirit" goes all the way back to at lest the 3rd c. A.D. (depending on the date assigned to Hippolytus) and (most experts suspect) probably back to the local churches founded by the apostles themselves. It was universally used by RC, EO, and Protestant services alike until the 1960s. Furthermore, in virtually every other langauge than English (German, French, Italian, SPanish, etc., etc.) "and with your spirit" (updating from "thy") has been retained. It is only in the English-speaking that the deliberate mistranslation "and also with you" was adopted. (And if you really suppose "not that anyone gives this much thought to liturgical theology, so I doubt it matters much" you haven't seen the buckets of ink spilled in liturgical polemical literature over this very point.)

And certainly, if the magisterial Reformers saw fit to retain it (and they all did), that in and of itself should tell you that its import does not deny the priesthood of all believers. I don't propose to open that controversial can of worms here; but even the Protestant position on that point recognizes that the ordained ministry, by virtue of being a sacred office of the church, marks its occupant as in some way set apart (even if only for the period the office is held,as opposed to an indelible grace conferred for life as in catholic theology). What it grants him is, in a word, authority.

The actual meaning of "and with thy spirit is twofold" and in intimately linked with the proper Christian position of celebration of the Eucharist with both the priest/presbyter and the congregation facing eastward [the Resurrection -- i.e., the rising sun]. (The theory of the celebrant facing the people, rammed down the throats of congregation during the 1960s, have now been completely exploded and shown to be based on a thorough misinterpretation of archaeological evidence. See e.g. chapters 1-2 in the recent "Oxford Dictionary of Christian Worship".)

In traditional Christian worship, when the altar is before both the celebrant and the people, then the focus is on God, emphasizing His transcendence. When the celebrant faces the altar with the people, he speaks for them to God; when he turns to face the people, he speaks as God's agent to declare His will to the people. Hence the connotation of "and with thy spirit" is a petition that the Holy Ghost be with the minister in a particular way for the proper execution of the dual aspects of the ministerial office.

The modern placement of the altar between celebrant and people to create a sense of "community" (a secular notion quite different from the Christian concept of "communion") was aimed by the liturgical revisionists at removing the transcedent element and making God merely immanent -- i.e., placing him on a human level as if we are His equals. The destruction of the contrast in functions -- engendered alike by eliminating the eastward position of worship, the elimination of the dual rerpesentative functions of the minister, and the replacement of "and with thy spirit" by the insipid and banal "and also with you" -- means that the minister thus no longer acts as either the duly called leader of the congregation to speak on their behalf to God, nor as God's appointed spokesman to address His word to the people. It is all reduced to the modern social-political ideology of egalitarianism, and thus also implicitly denies the authority of the ministerial office.

In short, the change from "and with thy spirit" to "and also with you" was neither accidental nor innocent; it was deliberate and invidious, just one more example of the thorough-going agenda of theological revisionists to subvert the faith from within. It is no coincidence that those responsible for it have also been the proponents of ther hereesies of women's ordination, "gay marriage", "inclusive language" for God, and every other similar abomination.

You state that you "worry about anything that would elevate the pastor to anything other than" . . . "one of the priesthood of the baptized". Do you believe or not that the pastorate has a God-given authority that sets it, and the person fulfilling that office, apart from those not holding it? If you do, then this objection is not tenable. Certainly St. Paul did not hesitate either to pull rank as an apostle when necessary (I Cor. 9:1), or to enumerate different offices with different levels of authority (Eph. 4:11-12); and of course there is the NT distinction between bishop/presbyter and deacon. And I would also suggest that you take a hard and long look at Numbers 16-17 to see to where envy and the lust for egalitarian assertion with respect to the ministry and congregation leads.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

James,

I must say, as a newcomer to Anglicanism, I've never been in a service where the priest faces the alter during the Eucharist. It seems like it would be frustrating not to see his face, but then again there is a lot of parts where the priest addresses the congregation. That might be neat to emphasize the difference between talking to God and the people by the direction he's facing. (It must kill you that there are youngsters like me to which tradition is a novelty)

By the way, you might like my little blurb on Numbers 16-19, Self-Made Men and the Kingdom of God.

[Michael]

James,

How very good of you to tell me what I already admitted to, namely, that I was not educated on liturgical history, and even went further in demonstrating what others had already noted--that it was a return to a more ancient liturgy, which I have already said, I supported. It is always nice to know that someone is looking out to be thorough, or is that repetition induces a trance-like state that drowns out individual thought?

As to your last question: well, my good sir, I have no desire to turn this fine thread into another rehashing of the Reformation, so I will decline to answer.

[c matt]

Counselor: "If you were the only person alive Jesus would have died for you!"

Patient: "Great. Now you're saying it was all my fault!"

[Tony Esolen]

Susan,

My pastor is a cradle Catholic -- but he just happens to be very smart, well read, and a man of excellent musical taste. He sings terrifically, too -- a great resonant tenor voice. He says Mass reverently, with great attention to the small differences between one celebration and another (he seems to have three or four tiers of solemnity, as reflected in how much Latin we get, and incense). And he's a superb and frank and non-showboating homilist. That meant, of course, that he was relegated to diocesan Siberia for fifteen years, when he really should be a monsignor, in charge of the diocesan schools ...

How about your favorite hymns OF VARIOUS SORTS, from various places or traditions?

Favorite plainsong: Of the Father's Love Begotten
Favorite Latin chant: Veni Creator Spiritus
Favorite German chorale: Christ Lag in Todesbanden
Favorite Easter hymn: Thine Is the Glory (Handel)
Favorite Classical hymn: Thine Arm, O Lord, in Days of Old (Mozart)
Favorite American revival hymn: Abide With Me
Favorite American shape-note hymn: Wondrous Love
Favorite Arch-Catholic Song: To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King
Favorite 20th Century Composition: For All the Saints
Favorite Collection: Scottish Psalter
Favorite Negro Spiritual: Go Down, Moses
Favorite Setting of 23rd Psalm: Evan
Favorite "Masculine" Song: God of Grace and God of Glory (Cwm Rhondda -- the song in How Green Was My Valley)
Favorite "Feminine" Song: Jesus My King, My God, My All
Favorite Unknown Carol: Infant Holy, Infant Lowly (Poland)
Favorite Pull Out All the Stops and Bring Down the Roof Hymn: Lo, He Comes (to the tune Helmsley)