"Rooted in the Christian Tradition"

     That's how Mr. Obama, quoted by one of our bloggers the other day, has described himself.  And I confess I do not know what he can mean by it.  If he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior of the world, who died for our sins, and by whom alone we can be saved (even supposing that those who do not know how to pronounce His name may be saved in ways we cannot fathom), then he is a Christian -- which does not mean that he will be one of those seated at Christ's right hand in the end.  That will depend upon whether his faith is alive or locked in death.  Same for all the rest of us.  The devils believe, and are damned.

     Now if you are a Christian, you should say so.  Indeed, you must say so, for "he who denies me before men, him also I will deny before my Father."  To say, instead, that you are "rooted in the Christian tradition" is rather like Georgetown's saying that they are a "school in the Jesuit tradition."  The irony is, of course, that Georgetown is certainly not a school in the Jesuit tradition, if that tradition includes the founder of the Jesuit order, Ignatius of Loyola, and the next three to four centuries of Jesuits who spread the Christian faith across the world.  Georgetown is really a school in the Jesuit revolt from Jesuit tradition, a revolt of less than a century's age.  It's an odd thing, but nowadays people often invoke the word "tradition" to distance themselves from the reality that gave rise to the tradition in the first place.

     The Christian tradition, as everyone here knows, condemns in the strongest possible terms the killing of children in the womb.  "Whatsoever you do to the least of these," says Mr. Obama, quoting Jesus, "that you do unto me."  Yes, precisely; and what definition of "the least of these," to anyone really rooted in the Christian tradition, rather than rooted in secularism and tinted with the wash of Christian lingo, will not include unborn babies, is hard for me to see.  Especially since, according to that same old Christian tradition, our Savior was made flesh in the womb of the Virgin, when Mary said, "Be it done unto me according to thy word."  He was not made flesh on the night when he came forth from that womb.  That is why that Christian tradition held that John the Baptist leapt in the womb of Elizabeth, as recognizing his Savior -- though Mary could not have been far on in her pregnancy.  That is why that Christian tradition assigned its New Year's Day as the day of the Annunciation.

     That Christian tradition -- and the explicit instructions of Scripture -- holds that sexual relations are for men and women in marriage, without exceptions.  The overturning of that understanding bids fair to destroy the west; I am not talking about sexual sins, but about the refusal to confess that sexual sins even exist.  Mr. Obama's own community has been devastated by the sexual revolution.  Yet he and his wife have blamed the racism of America, and the stinginess of the federal government, and the greed of the rich, rather than the betrayal of the word of God (and of simple common sense) that is now common to us all, whatever our race or class.  Again, I do not know what he can mean by "rooted in the Christian tradition," since the sexual revolution has done all the demons can to tear that tradition up by the roots.

     Perhaps "the Christian tradition" means little more than a generalized benevolence, demanded and directed by a vast, mighty, and intrusive central power.  Yet I find that vision of the human good (if it be a human good, and not a ghastly parody of it) nowhere in Scripture, nowhere among the writings of the Fathers, nowhere in the lives of the saints.

     I do know that the Christian tradition sees patriotism as a form of piety, and as falling under the commandment to honor our father and our mother.  That tradition would look with suspicion upon someone who could not bring himself to utter words that place his country under the protection and supervision of God.  I wonder, too, what tradition smiles upon seeking patronage from the vilest despisers of one's country.  What genuine member of the Jewish faith would seek patronage from an unrepentant Joseph Mengele?  But William Ayres and Bernardine Dohrn never did anything as vile as Mengele did.  No, probably not.  But I will have to let God or Dante judge among the relative vileness of experimenting upon human beings and murdering one's countrymen in an attempt to foment revolution.  And as for experimenting upon human beings, the evil Doctor Mengele must be pleased to learn that we will now be creating human life precisely for that purpose.

     The last words I will spend on this election are these.  That Christian tradition commonly saw Satan's pride as an expression of ingratitude.  You see that sin at the heart of Satan's rebellion in Paradise Lost.  It is there in the Divine Comedy.  Thomas Aquinas talks about it.  Now we have two candidates, one of whom I find quite personable on an ordinary and trivial human level (Mr. Obama), and the other of whom seems to me, in his personality, as cuddly as a porcupine.  But Mr. McCain was willing to give his life, and came near enough to doing so, to a country that mismanaged the war he fought, and perhaps did not deserve his devotion.  Yet he gave that devotion, and he has never had an unkind word to say about America.  He loves the country which took so much from him.  Mr. Obama, by contrast, has nothing but unkind things to say about the America from which he has received so much.  Mr. McCain speaks and acts as if he were in his country's debt.  Mr. Obama speaks and acts as if his country were in his debt.  There is a name for that attitude, as all children know.

Comments

[anonymous]

Christians do not sit in a so-called church for 20 years that espouses hate towards white people. The Christian way is the way of love ..... every person is deserving of god's love ..... and, every person is valuable to god and capable of redemption.... that includes people of color, different races, etc. etc. He cannot be a christian if he sat there for 20 years.

[Matthias]

You are being silly, Professor.

Sen. Obama's statement would be significant only if there were a notable failure on his part to also simply assert that he is a Christian. That is not the case. Obama has stated many, many times that he is a Christian. The one time I heard him speak in person he said it: "I am a Christian."

Just Google for ["i am a christian" obama]. I'd include the link but for the stupid spam-detector here with its bias against links.

(By the way I wonder when was the last time Pope Benedict publicly stated "I am a Christian" or "I am a Catholic"?)

[Stuart Koehl]

But I think I have known some Christians who have gone to church for twenty years and slept through every sermon or homily. But never with a preacher whose amplifier goes to eleven, like Jeremiah Wright's.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>Sen. Obama's statement would be significant only if there were a notable failure on his part to also simply assert that he is a Christian.<<<

To say is not to be. As in his faith, as in every other aspect of his life, the Big O talks the talk but does not walk the walk (to quote Thomas Sowell, "He has the cocksure confidence that comes from never having done anything").

Even the demons possessing the Gadarene man knew who Christ was. it did not make them Christians. If one deconstructs the various (and often contradictory) statements of Obama on his beliefs, one must at the end of the day shout, "Anathema! Anathema! ANATHEMA!!!".

[Kamilla]

Mathias,

I think you were already answered - and in the first paragraph at that.

Kamilla

[Judy K. Warner]

>>>(By the way I wonder when was the last time Pope Benedict publicly stated "I am a Christian" or "I am a Catholic"?)<<<

The Pope certainly never said he was rooted in the Christian (or Catholic) tradition either. But no one has cause to doubt either unspoken statement.

"Rooted in the Christian tradition" is academia-speak, and it is false in Obama's case if I interpret "rooted" rightly. His roots are in radicalism, from his mother, and possibly in Islam, from his step-father, continuing in radicalism through the associations he chose as an adult. He became a Christian, either as a step he saw necessary to his political career, or as something he adopted in its black-nationalist form as preached by Jeremiah Wright, which seems more rooted in radicalism than in Christianity, as many have noted. So his Christian roots are mighty shallow, as far as I can see.

[Occasional Reader]

Does not the fact that Obama has repeatedly and explicitly claimed that he is a Christian (as he is advised to do in paragraph two) make this whole blog post seem a little odd?

One might wish to say that Obama is lying (for political reasons) or wrong, that the evidence is not sufficient to confirm his claim, but this is not what Esolen is telling us is the problem. But if Obama claims both that he is a Christian and that he "is rooted in the Christian tradition," I am not sure why Esolen is choosing to interpret his statement as if by associating himself with the Christian tradition, Obama is equivocating with respect his claim to be a Christian.

Having read Esolen's posts on occasion, it is clear that he is an altogether brilliant fellow, so I wonder if he could explain how this little article makes any sense.

[Beth from TN]

Dr. Esolen, I believe, is simply checking the fruit, as we are supposed to do. Senator Obama claims to be rooted in the Christian tradition. His words and actions on policy matters do not reflect the Christian tradition. And so Dr. Esolen suggests that this is food for thought; after all, the man is asking us to elect him to the highest office of the land and is appealing directly to Christian voters by making this claim. Should we merely accept these particular words, as so many did with Mr. Carter, or should we look at his actions and all the rest of his words about what policies he would uphold/pursue in office?

[Occasional Reader]

Beth, that's all fine. It is equally clear to me that certain of Obama's stances are not consistent with the "Christian tradition" -- his support for abortion rights being the most obvious case -- but Esolen has told us that the claim to be "rooted in the Christian tradition" is Obama's attempt to hold at a distance a claim to actually be a Christian. I was just asking how that makes any sense when Obama has repeatedly claimed to be a Christian.

Now, if I were judging fruit, I would think that John McCain's marital infidelity, divorce and remarriage (cf. Obama's family life); his long-standing pro-choice stance (until it became politically inexpedient); his well-documented difficulty in controlling his anger; and his intemperance as a decision-maker would also be important to consider.

Then again, Esolen tells us that "Mr. Obama, by contrast [to McCain], has nothing but unkind things to say about the America from which he has received so much." Perhaps he means for us to take the whole article as seriously as we are apparently to take that sentence.

[Judy K. Warner]

>>>his long-standing pro-choice stance (until it became politically inexpedient);<<<

From National Review last January:

January 18, 2008, 4:00 a.m.

Pro-Life, Pro-McCain
A candidate with an unmatchable record on life issues.

By Gerard V. Bradley

If there is a NARAL hit list I am on it. I have testified before one or another congressional committee in favor of almost every important pro-life law proposed in the last decade. I testified as an expert in constitutional law for laws against partial-birth abortion, human cloning, and killing unborn children (save in the course of a lawful abortion). The last one is technically about “feticide”; it was formally styled Unborn Victims of Violence Act. More popularly, it came to be known as “Laci and Connor’s Law,” for the mother and her (unborn) child who were killed by Scott Peterson a few years ago in California.

I also testified for The Born Alive Infants’ Protection Act. This law says that once a baby is actually delivered from the womb — even if delivery occurs during a “botched” abortion — that newborn baby is, legally speaking, a person. He or she may not be killed, just as no other person may be killed. NRO friend Hadley Arkes drafted this law, and worked tirelessly for its passage. John McCain supported all these laws. And I support him for President.

McCain is not the only pro-life candidate in the Republican field. There are — and were — others. Kansas Senator Sam Brownback is rightly regarded as a champion of the unborn. He was no doubt the first choice of many ardent pro-life Republicans. But Brownback gave up his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago. Now he is backing McCain.

Of the remaining pro-life Republicans, none can match McCain’s record of opposing abortion. He has served in Congress for 24 years, and cast a lot of votes on abortion legislation during that time. His record is not merely exemplary — it is perfect. McCain’s votes on abortion really could not be better. A campaign advertisement in South Carolina says of John McCain: “Pro-life. Not just recently. Always. Never wavering.” The ad is true.

It is no criticism of any other pro-life candidate to say that McCain’s track record makes him the best of a small number of good choices. Mike Huckabee is a good man and solidly pro-life. I personally do not doubt the sincerity or depth of Mitt Romney’s present commitment to the unborn. But experience matters. Being battle-hardened in defense of life is a real plus. Twenty-four years of service at the national level — almost all of them in the Senate — make a big difference when we are talking about the next President, compared to candidates who have been small-state governors. There is no need to speculate or to rely upon promises or take matters on faith when it comes to McCain and abortion. He has demonstrated himself to be the best pro-life choice.

[Justin]

It is ironic that the first link to come up for a Google of "I am a Christian" and "Obama" (per the recommendation in the comment above) has both him saying "I am a Christian" and then quickly following it with "I'm rooted in the Christian tradition." The best part, though, is what comes after he says that he is "rooted in the Christian tradition." He says, "I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people."

[Tony Esolen]

Dear Occasional:

I can't imagine myself saying, "I am firmly rooted in the Christian tradition," unless we were talking about metaphysics or something not specifically Christian. If somebody came up to Rabbi Heschel and said, "What is your faith?", it would seem odd to hear him reply, "I am firmly rooted in the Jewish tradition." Especially in our day -- when that's exactly the sort of thing you say rather than to confess your faith. There's something weaselly about it, something equivocal. If Mr. Obama has said that he believes that Jesus Christ is the savior of the world, then I will take his word for it unless someone can show me conclusive evidence that he is lying -- understanding that stupidity and sin get in the way of our living our lives accordingly. Clovis believed that Jesus Christ was the savior of the world, and still had half his family assassinated, according to a couple of my historian friends. But I don't want to include defensive statements, as in, "I am not a Muslim, but a Christian."

As for his not having kind things to say about America, well, I don't hear any from him. And yes, I do believe he has received a great deal from this country. Not taking anything away from the stupidities of racism, either.

As for The Boss Benedict, he speaks of his faith in Christ continually....

[Occasional Reader]

JKW, I was wrong to call McCain "pro-choice." I was thinking of his relatively more "moderate" stances on related issues including supporting embryonic stem cell research, saying (in an earlier campaign) that he did not support the reversal of Roe v. Wade, and his alleged dalliance (which did not come to fruition) with a pro-choice VP. Calling that "pro-choice" was a mischaracterization.

Dr. Esolen, I think there could indeed be something "weaselly" about an appeal to the Christian tradition, but I had always thought that statement was immediately following the more explicit: "I am a Christian." At least it was on some occasion. Given the persistence of the Muslim myth, I suppose most, if not all, of Obama's claims to be "a Christian" fall into the defensive category which don't count. If a Christian, I don't think Obama is much of a theologian, and I suppose we at least agree as far as that goes.

As for how he speaks of America, I guess we must have access to different soundbites, for I frequently hear him speak of the greatness of this nation and its people, speaking with gratitude for the opportunities afforded him and his family. (You really never hear this?) To the extent that he laments ways in which America has failed and is presently failing to live up to its own better ideals, I would not take that to be "unkind" or unpatriotic. If it is, then both candidates -- running on the rhetoric of "change" as they are -- are suffering from the same malady, and we should be looking for someone happier with the way things have been going.

[Stuart Koehl]

"Rooted in the Christian tradition" is indeed weasel words when uttered by a liberal Democrat of Obama's sort. It is a null set, it has no meaning but is meant to evoke feelings of comfort in those in the center, without creating unease in those on the left, for whom the term "Christian" evokes images of the three guys from Deliverance tying Ned Beatty to a tree.

At the same time, it is a true statement to the extent that, if you live in this country, you are immersed in the Christian tradition. Our culture is still predicated on Judeo-Christian principles, and we are living off the interest accrued over two thousand years of Christian culture (some think we have eaten through the interest and are now drawing down the principal). But as far as "living in the Christian tradition", that's another matter. I know people who live the Tradition, and they act, think and speak very differently from Barack Obama.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>Clovis believed that Jesus Christ was the savior of the world, and still had half his family assassinated, according to a couple of my historian friends. <<<

"Nothing personal, it's just business". One could say the same of Constantine, and we made him a saint.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

"Rooted in the Christian Tradition"

That's how Mr. Obama, quoted by one of our bloggers the other day, has described himself.

Tony, I got that quote from this article, Obama Denies Christ in His Own Words, a website that has 7 short videos by an African-American pastor making the case that Barack Obama is not a Christian.

I found this website via google while commenting on your previous "Babies and Bottlecaps" blog post.

[Bob]

I see the Obama trolls and shills are out in numbers. How much is ACORN paying you guys? Is it in cash or crack?

[Ryan]

OR, your arguments are accurate and free of unnecessary loaded language. It is appreciated. Same cannot be said of Bob.

[Stuart Koehl]

I dunno. I think Bob is hitting the nail fairly square on the head.

[W.E.D. Godbold]

C'mon guys, the reason I like this site is it doesn't typically degenerate into the virulent comments made by the brain-dead losers who apparently populate (for instance) the blogs of the Washington Post. We're supposed to be reflecting Jesus as much as we can. Bob's comment is just partisan vitriol. I know it's close to an election that isn't looking great for the "good" guys, but let's not go there again.

[Seth R.]

It's posts like this that make me wonder if the whole "salvation by grace" vs. "salvation by works" issue is mere semantic chicken-and-the-egg nonsense.

It sure doesn't seem to make much difference where the rubber hits the road - judging the "Christianity" of a person.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

Seth R.: "It sure doesn't seem to make much difference where the rubber hits the road - judging the "Christianity" of a person."

Seth, you're Mormon, aren't you? If so, then you know that the vast majority of Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants don't regard Mormons as Christians, or Mormonism as being Christianity. If anything, Mormonism is arianism redux.

[labrialumn]

Ayers and Doerhn haven't yet done anything as vile as what Mengele did, but Planned Parenthood and NARAL do so - every day, and BS/BO is committed to doing so even more human vivisection in this country.

As to that one's claim to Christianity, One must not expect truth from those who think that there is no truth, and that words are merely a mask for power. And those were the people he hung out with in college and grad school.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

Stuart: "I think Bob is hitting the nail fairly square on the head."

I might have swung the hammer a little differently than Bob, but I agree with the substance of what he's saying.

[labrialumn]

Matthiaas,
Obama's failure to renounce the claims by his followers that he is the messiah is cause enough to know that he is not a Christian.

Then there is the teaching in the New Testament that no murderer has eternal life - and Obama/Soetoro is pro-abortion and pro-infanticide. He does not have eternal life.

[Michael]

>>It's posts like this that make me wonder if the whole "salvation by grace" vs. "salvation by works" issue is mere semantic chicken-and-the-egg nonsense.

It sure doesn't seem to make much difference where the rubber hits the road - judging the "Christianity" of a person.<<

Seth! Long time no see. I will confess to missing your input recently; you may be Mormon, and therefore outside of orthodoxy, but I appreciate that someone who has similar moral values can contribute to a project like Touchstone. Your voice here--on the nature of salvation in regards to someone's "fruits"--is a natural fit to keep the discussion within the realm of Christian commentary instead of more political fodder.

However, here is where the rubber does indeed meet the road. When we judge Obama's Christianity by works, we are not judging his salvation by works. When he clearly believes something outside the realm of Christian tradition, and further confesses that he believes there are "many paths", we can cry "Anathema!" without damning his soul. Obama's works demonstrate rebellion against the precepts of Scripture (and therefore God).

As Dr. Esolen noted, Clovis was a murderer--clearly works--but is still within the Christian tradition. Stuart points out Constantine was a general, a conqueror, expansionist even after his conversion, which is hardly within the realm of Just War, yet he was canonized. Obama's works are mated to a confession and to a belief structure that his damning.

Grace and faith are gifts of God; works are our outworking thereof. But works without those gifts is a mere clanging cymbal. Without love (and God is love), I am nothing.

[Clifford Simon]

Seth, By the way, I'd just like to thank one of the unsung heros of this election - your Mormon brother Mitt Romney. That's for the goodwill he had when he lost the nomination. Then it was all Obama vs. Hillary making the Dems look as greedy as they are.

TUAD, did you see SMH's post about the Dems (titled "Practical Atheism Revisited")?

[Respectabiggle]

The piece linked by TUAD is worth reading. At some points in that interview, Obama seems like a typical Christian of the liberal variety -whom I'd consider wrong on some crucial issues, but still a brother in Christ.

In the rest of it, though, he's drifting somewhere between Universalism, pantheism, and token political spirituality. The most revealing exchange is, I think, this one:


GG: What is sin?

OBAMA: Being out of alignment with my values.


That pretty much sums it up

[Tim]

I think Obama thinks he's a Christian; it's just that what he thinks a Christian, ain't, maybe. His "rooted" verbage reminds me of the Tibetan monks who taught me 20 years ago about having "a root guru," meaning one can have multiple gurus but have one main one, be he Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, etc. This type of thinking lends itself quite easily to the shallow (but broad! open-minded!) Joseph-Campbell, multicultural religiosity that is so prevalent out here in SF particularly in liberal "mainline" churches. Those who claim to be Christians whilst holding this sort of attitude tend to deny that Christ is the (only) way, deny the Incarnation, deny the redemptive act that was Christ's crucifixion, indeed deny sin as a means for understanding our condition, deny Christ's bodily resurrection, in short, they deny the Body of Christ as anything but some sort of metaphor; it does not constitute an actual reality. They also deny Holy Scripture, seeing it instead as an instrument of those in power (including denying the truths in the OT; "that was then, this is now"). I know this because I sat in the pews of such a church for 20 years. I then learned about what Christianity (thank you C.S. Lewis!) is and it t'weren't what was being preached in my church! I recognized Obama as a fellow congregant of such a church when he said that sin was "Being out of alignment with my values," and when he said, "I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth." Both of those statements are absolutely indicative of the sort of "Christianity" that is being preached in many liberal churches. Of course, such beliefs do not represent core Christian thought, right? Sin is violating God's "values," not ours, and no one (certainly not us) but God can (and will) create a Kingdom on Earth. Right?

So, given what Obama's been taught what Christianity is (remember, he was "brought to Christ" by Wright - and even given all the ethnic trappings of Wright's church, it is a liberal church, NOT a traditional Black Christian church which are very socially conservative), I'm sure he believes he's Christian. But by my lights, what he's been taught is Christianity, isn't. Key question becomes then, given that all teaching we come across in this world is less than perfect, how can we tell if Obama and we are believing in True Christianity? This is where, methinks, Creeds come in handy. And, as I think I've said before, my former church (TEC) long ago gave up the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds - they only seem to come out when strangers come to have their babies baptized. Can the Holy Ghost transform wrong Christianity into right Christianity or does Christianity, the Body of Christ, include "wrong Christianity" within it? I'm skeptical given what appears to me the seeming requirement that we choose and proclaim our choice for a Christ as understood from "baseline, traditional" sources such as the Creeds. God won't makes us Christians unless we want to be His idea of what a Christian is. Not ours. Or?

[W.E.D. Godbold]

I'm confident Sen. Obama and his followers can create a Kingdom here on earth as well. I just really, really hope he isn't thinking he can create God's Kingdom. Because when a mere man tries to usher in what can only come from God only bad things can happen. If this quote is accurate, Obama got an advanced case of immanetizingeschatonitis and it looks like it might spread.

[Deniece]

Dr. Esolen,

In the years that I have been reading this blog I have always admired your posts but this series about Senator Obama has been very disappointing.

I am quite perplexed about why you have chosen to focus on him to the exclusion of the other candidate(s) in the field and particularly because the discussion has been framed, I believe, to completely ignore the context of Sen Obama's life. I expected no support for Sen Obama because of his position on abortion but I have consistently gotten the sense, while reading these posts, that the mere possibility ( I will believe that when I see it) of a "President" Obama is the equivalent of the raining of fire and brimstone.

Surely a desire to "spread the wealth around" is neither new nor outside of the American tradition. Was that not the point of the New Deal; which ironically was a response to a meltdown on Wall Street? Why should it then be an example of moral turpetude on the part of Sen Obama rather than simply a disagreement with your philosophy?

I am perturbed by questions about the Senator's Christian faith based on criteria that I do not believe you would use with even the previous generation. Senator Obama is wrong about abortion but he has lots of company when we talk about Christians with blind spots.

Dr. Russell Moore wrote a sermon about this issue comparing it to the fact that a major part of the Christianity of his childhood was a faith that ignored black people being hung for sport but obsessed over drinking, dancing and the immoral movies.

Somehow I think you would describe those folks as the salt of the earth not question their Christianity on the tiny issue of racially inspired murder nor a culture that at best turned a blind eye and at worst heartily encouraged it.

I am concerned that I see no attempt to research or understand why it is, for example, that there is such a significant degree of nationalism in black churches which should be the basis on which a scholar like yourself would interrogate the issue of the Senator's decision to attend Trinity UCC. I am also concerned that impressions about the black church or its nationalism seem to be gleaned from Fox News rather than reading Rev. Wrights sermons - the entire texts rather than the three salacious soundbites that are continually being shown on tv.

I was initially amused but now am irritated by the deification of "Joe the plumber". I found it quite strange that you would ascribe to him either moral rectitude or an understanding of economics on such a flimsy basis. I must admit to being surprised about the almost salvic nature of calluses and would appreciate further elucidation on your assertion that physical labour, rather than the kind that you do, has such an effect on the capacity to understand and articulate any kind of philosophy.

Finally, I would like for you to comment on the following for me. If Senator Obama had an unmarried pregnant minor at home he could not at all be on the national stage like he is at the moment. If he dared we would hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth about the fabric of society being torn apart so why is it that in the case of Gov Palin we hear what a wonderful thing it is that she is pro - life; what about the sexual ethic part of it, Christianity has a lot to say about that. Thinking about the difference in treatment that my scenario describes does it not give a different meaning to the Senator's assertion of a girl being "punished with a baby?"

[DGP]

>>GG: What is sin? OBAMA: Being out of alignment with my values.

I've read this transcript, and I don't think Sen. Obama meant it this way. It's open to interpretation, but the sense of it seems to be, "I sin when I act against my judgment concerning what is good." Admittedly, Sen. Obama probably emphasizes "my judgment" more than the Aristotelian good, but one ought not try to make the man say bad things he hasn't said.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

Professor Robert Gagnon: "If Obama is elected President this Tuesday he has made it a priority of his administration to pass legislation that will make war against Christians and persons of other religious convictions who believe that homosexual practice and abortion are immoral acts. Persecution will take many forms, as indicated by actions that have already taken place in parts of the United States, Canada, and Western Europe..."

Read it all at Obama’s Coming War on Historic Christianity over Homosexual Practice and Abortion.

I'm curious. Why would Obama wage war on Historic Christianity over Homosexual Practice and Abortion when he stated that he's "rooted in the Christian tradition"?

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

"TUAD, did you see SMH's post about the Dems (titled "Practical Atheism Revisited")?"

Clifford, yes I did. It was fantastic.

My favorite two quotes:

o "Things have gradually but surely come to the point we must say that to the degree Christians have been co-opted by the Democrats, they are no longer good."

o "The senior editors agree that the Democratic party has in the last generation undergone changes that make it impossible for a knowledgeable Christian to vote in good conscience as a Democrat, just as it was once impossible for a knowledgeable Christian in Germany to vote in good conscience for the Nazi party, whatever good that party may have done, and however many religious allies it might have had.

[c matt]

A candidate with an unmatchable record on life issues.

ESCR is certainly a life issue, and McCain's record has been far from perfect on it. Moreover, there were other candidates with far better Life positions who have been fighting at the national level as long as McCain, and one was even better on a whole host of issues (Ron Paul).

But, it is unquestionable that as between O and McCain, McCain is better.

[Francesca]

Tony Esolen writes:>>Mr. Obama, by contrast, has nothing but unkind things to say about the America from which he has received so much. <<

This is simply untrue. Quite frankly, I think it's disgraceful to bear false witness against Obama while simultaneously calling his Christianity into question. It's one thing to be partisan; quite another to be dishonest. Motes in eyes and all that.

Obama has lavished praise on America and the American people. He has repeatedly praised Americans as decent, generous people who are willing to work hard for future generations, and he has expressed his indebtedness to them. He has repeatedly said that he loves this country too much to see it dragged through the mire, as it has been for the past several years. He has decried what he calls the "betrayal of American values" after the Bush Administration-supported S. 3930, Military Commissions Act of 2006, which approved US torture of detainees, was passed by the Senate. He has expressed gratitude for his Harvard education and has publicly praised his American grandmother for "putting everything she had into me." It seems to me he is standing up for all that is truly American.

Hating the horrors that the Bush administration has inflicted on America (and there are few Americans today that approve of what the Bush administration has done) is not the same thing as hating America. Quite the reverse. One would have to love America dearly to be prepared to take on the Herculean task of cleaning up the mess left behind and returning our nation to the prosperity and status of happier days.

Obama has the highest favorability ratings of any first-time presidential candidate, he's been endorsed by several people of magnitude (over 70 Nobel Prize winners, several leading economists, many legendary military figures,) and he has an overwhelming lead in the polls. It's sad, and not particularly "American," that sour grapes over this success would lead to the lies and vitriol that have been heaped upon him. I just hope John McCain will manage to salvage some dignity and honor when he concedes tomorrow night.

[labrialumn]

I think "rooted in the Christian tradition" means that you eat turkey on the fourth Thursday in November, and have presents on December 24th or 25th. Not necessarily much else.

[W.E.D. Godbold]

Most Nobel Prize winners are academics. Most academics are liberal Democrats. (I was a conservative academic in science and know whereof I speak.) Therefore, most Nobel Prize winners are going to support the Democratic candidate for President, even if the Republican was a scientist. It would be more interesting to note the reasons of those Nobel winners who *don't* support Sen. Obama.

[Kamilla]

"He has repeatedly praised Americans as decent, generous people who are willing to work hard for future generations, and he has expressed his indebtedness to them."

Who knew Francesca was such a comedienne!

Kamilla

[labrialumn]

I think "rooted in the Christian tradition" means that you eat turkey on the fourth Thursday in November, and have presents on December 24th or 25th. Not necessarily much else.

TUAD, that is also the conclusion of a large number of Catholic bishops in America and the Vatican: It is not morally licit to vote for Obama, for to do so is to engage in material cooperation with an intrinsic evil, and thus commit mortal sin. And they are speaking out about it, even equating it to the Battle of Lepanto in terms of importance, even though they know that this will mean further federal persecution of the Catholic Church in America. This election is that important.

Francesca, Obama speaks with forked tongue. He ways one thing to one group, and another to another, depending on what they want to hear. So it is not false witness to cite what he has said when it was not running for office, just because he has also said other things when campaigning.

America has never been a Chavezista/Grenadine dictatorship/oligarchy, so I don't know what past you think Soetoro will return us to.

Let us hope and pray that McCain will win, for the sake of tens of millions of babies, and tens of millions of souls that would otherwise only hear lies about what is metaphysically true, in the compulsary government preschools and schools.

Vote for life, vote for liberty. Vote McCain/Palin.

A vote for "Obama"/Biden is a vote for the culture of death and for tyranny. Do not make your covenant with death!

[W.E.D. Godbold]

The "horrors" include a few guys who got waterboarded and who suffered no permanent damage and from whom we learned information (according to the WP) that prevented further attacks and rounded up folks who were planning on blowing people up. Oh, and a bad economy that is a fully bipartisan product.

What I call horrors is one million dead babies every year. Sen. Obama has given no sign that he is willing to do anything to stop this or even thinks it's a serious problem--the most serious moral issue of our time. (And it's not complicated: live baby--good; dead baby--bad) President Bush, to his credit, did all that he could politically to stop this by appointing justices who should rule to abolish that ludicrous legal precedent and throw the political problem back to where it should have been allowed to be decided--the states.

[Tony Esolen]

Deniece,

Thank you for those kind words. A couple of points:

I haven't said anything in these posts about Sarah Palin. All I will say now is that her first priority should be her children. Whether that is compatible with her political career is not clear to me. I haven't made up my mind about it.

I have said little in praise of John McCain. I don't like the man. On the other hand, I recognize in him an old-fashioned patriotism and hard-won practical wisdom that commands my respect. He has time and again bolted from his own party to do what he believed was best for America, winning ridicule from conservative talk radio. While I don't agree at all with the ineffectual and (I believe) unconstitutional McCain-Feingold law, I grant my respect to the man for his political courage.

I do not believe that a Christian can vote for any candidate who believes it is all right to put innocent human life to death. Some conservatives believe that that exclusion applies also to John McCain, who might wage a preemptive war against Iran. It is not clear to me that that is what Mr. McCain would indeed do, so I don't know what to make of that point of view. But several of my friends will be voting for neither Mr. Obama nor Mr. McCain, on some such grounds as those. Anyone who would sign the Freedom of Choice Act, or repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, is simply not someone that a Christian can support, regardless of his (generally dangerous) views on economics, etc. A good friend of mine, an old-style liberal priest, will not vote for Obama on precisely those grounds. He is obeying the moral law -- he cannot lend material assistance to evils so unnatural. He will not vote for John McCain, either.

I also do not believe that an American who loves civic liberty can vote for a man with such an expansionist view of the Constitution. Essentially, Mr. Obama will have to equivocate when (if) he is sworn in as President. He will have to swear not to defend the Constitution such as it is, but to defend some vague Spirit of the Constitution, an Evolving Spirit of the Constitution, such as it might be. It's the same thing that Jesuits these days do when they swear allegiance to the Pope. The "Pope" they swear allegiance to, by their own cheerful admission, is not the man called the Pope who is seated in the Chair of Peter, but some vague ideal of a Pope to Come, or the Spirit of the Papacy, also an Evolving Spirit. The swearing then becomes quite meaningless.

Since I work among academics, and spend a lot of my time in the summer hanging around and working among people who wouldn't know which end of a book to open, I get a fair idea of the shortcomings of both groups. And since I do a lot of manual labor myself, I find that it is strangely the case that certain forms of work which Aristotle would have deemed a misfortune are actually more conducive to contemplation than is the work that academics typically do, not to mention the work of the peddlers of mass marketers, mass entertainers, mass politickers, etc. I believe that monks and cloistered nuns would bear me out on this.

I didn't want to deify Joe the Plumber. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to ignore the man, either. There is something bracing and healthy about actually having to make sure that a bridge doesn't fall down, or a water main doesn't burst. See, in my line of work, the penalty for incompetence is not so obvious. That's why academics are always prone to utopian visions. People who have to cut down trees or plow the land are less so.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

In 1934, during his second year as chancellor of the German Reich, Adolf Hitler invited the leaders of the evangelical churches of Germany to a meeting in Berlin. He goal was to quell mounting criticism from the Christian community of the Nazi regime and its attempts to subvert the churches. Among those present at that meeting was a fiery young Lutheran pastor from the Berlin suburb of Dahlem named Martin Niemoller. Niemoller would later recall this encounter as the moment from which he knew that Germany was doomed. Hitler was amiable and deliberately reassuring as he sought the support of these prominent churchmen. He promised the pastors that the position of the church in Germany was safe and secure - that its legal protections, its tax exemptions, and state support would remain unchanged under the Nazi government. Niemoller pushed to the front of the group to confront the chancellor directly and reject his casual consignment of Christians to social irrelevance. Standing face to face with Germany's ruler, the brash young pastor asserted: "Our concern, Herr Hitler, is not for the church. Our concern is for the soul of our country." An embarrassed silence followed his remark and it was immediately evident that Niemoller spoke only for himself. His chagrined colleagues quickly shuffled him away from the front of the room. Noting their timid reaction, the dictator smiled as he replied, "The soul of Germany, you can leave that to me.

The Christians of America must not keep silent while innocent blood is shed and the nation is led to destruction. There is just too much at stake.

Abortion is the great moral question of our day. There is no other issue like it - it cuts to the very soul of our nation. A society that sanctions the slaughter of unborn children is a society that has reverted to barbarism. A civilization that permits the extermination of human beings because of their age, their location, or their race has forfeited the right to be called civilized. On this single issue there is only one Christian position - for life! On this single issue there is only one human position - for life! We can win the next election or the next ten elections, balance the budget, eliminate the deficit, and reduce taxes. We can make the United States the most powerful and the wealthiest country on the face of the earth. But if we do not stop the slaughter of unborn children in this land, then America will be destroyed. Abortion is an unholy altar which we have raised up to pagan gods of our own lust and greed."

Excerpted from God & Caesar.

What I should like to point out from the above excerpt is that fellow pastors, shepherds of God's churches, were the ones who pulled courageous Pastor Niemoller away from further confronting Hitler. They may have done it to save his life, but I also think they may have done it because they opposed Niemoller for stinging their consciences.

Although it's painful to say, it's too important not to say it: There will be, or is already under way, a civil war within and between Christians. Between Catholics, between the Eastern Orthodox, and between Protestants. Good pastor-shepherds must confront false shepherds. The issue of abortion forces the issue. It has to be that way. Pro-life Christian leaders must confront Pro-Abortion Christian leaders. Much like Pastor Niemoller and the German Confessing Church had to confront the German Chrisians who supported, enabled, and aided and abetted the Nazi party. Much like the Christians who shot and killed each other during the U.S. Civil War over the issue of slavery. Abortion is of that magnitude. Catholic bishops should deny communion to those who materially cooperate in the sin of abortion.

Lastly, I do hope that the major difference between today's conflict and the ones in the past is that it does not devolve into physical violence. Polemic and denunciation... fine. Physical violence... bad.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>Surely a desire to "spread the wealth around" is neither new nor outside of the American tradition. <<<

Somebody needs a history lesson. Warn her not to make me do it.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

"Somebody needs a history lesson. Warn her not to make me do it."

Fear not. Francesca is humble and teachable.

[NTBH]

Any final predictions concerning the winner? Stuart? TUAD?

[Stuart Koehl]

I think I said earlier, McCain beats Obama, 51-49, with 287 electoral votes.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

"Any final predictions concerning the winner?"

God.

Okay, okay. If I had to make a sizable wager and was given only even odds, then I'd bet on Obama. But if you gave me 9:1 odds, I'd take McCain! And if I could get both bets, I'd bet on both and guarantee thta I couldn't lose any money!

I prayed for several hours this weekend, praying for forgiveness, and petitioning God for His mercy and grace. And that if Divine Judgement and Wrath were forthcoming, then we, as a nation, certainly deserved it.

Naturally, I'm hoping that Stuart's prediction comes true! For a more optimistic view than Stuart's, click here.

[Francesca]

>>Any final predictions concerning the winner? Stuart? TUAD?<<

Obama's lead has been stretching over the past few days. All the pundits, including Rove, are predicting 300+ electoral votes for Obama. I'm guessing over 350 EVs. Of the toss-ups I'll guess Obama gets: VA, PA, NC, FL, CO, NM and NV, and possibly MO and IN, as well as the rest of the Kerry states + IA.

I doubt Obama will win by fewer than 6 points, very likely not less than 5. Since early September I've been predicting an 11 point win for Obama, but then I'm an optimist. It's encouraging to see Obama's gains in the Mountain West. I don't expect him to win Montana this time, but I think that race will be close and I'll be ecstatic if he does.

Has anyone noticed that in articles about the makeup of the new Senate nobody talks about the possibility that, if McCain wins the presidency, he would likely be replaced by a Democrat (AZ has a Democratic Governor)? And that's because nobody believes he'll win.

Obama's margin of victory will obviously depend on turnout. Let's hope that "people who hate America" won't be voting to inflict more of the same on us tomorrow:-/

[Occasional Reader]

I was thinking that Bob's comment was not worthy of a response, but since some seem to find Bob incisive, I thought it was worth mentioning that this Obama "troll" and "shill" is voting for McCain today, only for the fact that he has come over time to a nearly consistent pro-life position. This issue, being both the gravest and perhaps only unambiguous moral question before us, has determined my vote since 1980, even when in this case I must reject an upstanding family man and vote for an adulterer who has chosen an unqualified running mate for the sake of sheer political sensationalism.

I just thought that Esolen's initial essay was partisan and unfair.

[Stuart Koehl]

I thought it was partisan and eminently fair. Not every narrative has equal merit. Not every opinion deserves equal consideration. It is good that we can dismiss certain things out of hand--it keeps us from making the same mistakes our ancestors did, over and over again.

[Judy K. Warner]

For what it's worth, Mark Steyn gives these numbers from Dixville Notch, the first-in-the-nation precinct to count its votes:

2000 Bush 21 Gore 5

2004 Bush 19 Gore 7

2008 McCain 6 Obama 15

He goes on to say:

Re Dixville Notch, several readers point out that the town has 19 registered voters.

Yet 15 voted for Obama and 6 for McCain. Which adds up to...

You gotta admit that Acorn operation's pretty thorough.

[Stuart Koehl]

Or maybe some of the several hundred reporters who show up to cover Dixville Notch got a little carried away in their enthusiasm for the Enlightened One?

Which reminds me, when the Dalai Lama passes on, will Barack be the guy they choose next?

[Rob G]

"The Andy Griffith Show" 7:30 p.m. (30 min.) When a charming, smooth-talking stranger comes to Mayberry, the townspeople are taken by his wit and style, but Andy, smelling a rat, expresses his doubts and urges caution. The people don't listen, however, and led by Floyd and Goober, they take Andy outside of town and hang him. The visitor is made the new sheriff, but hilarity ensues when the people slowly begin to realize he's a dangerous con-man!

[Stuart Koehl]

An interesting juxtaposition, since "A Face in the Crowd", starring Andy Griffith as the charming, smooth-talking stanger, was shown on Turner Classic Movies last night.

[Rob G]

Serendipitous. I've never heard of that movie. Any good?

[DGP]

>>Which reminds me, when the Dalai Lama passes on, will Barack be the guy they choose next?

You're confusing a reincarnation with an incarnation. Reincarnations merely turn the wheel of life around again. Only incarnations bring real change to believe in.

[Francesca]

>>Re Dixville Notch, several readers point out that the town has 19 registered voters.
Yet 15 voted for Obama and 6 for McCain. Which adds up to...<<

The roaring metropolis of Dixville Notch in fact has 21 registered voters. They all voted shortly after midnight this morning. "Several readers" are either fibbing or didn't do much research.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>Serendipitous. I've never heard of that movie. Any good?<<<

Brilliant. And scary, too. Andy Griffith doesn't get as much credit as he deserves for his acting.

[Joe Long]

Senator Obama's self-identification is indeed a matter of some interest, of course; he did write an entire narcissistic book on the topic, but the subtitle was "A Story of Race and Inheritance", not "...Religion and Inheritance".

The obvious interpretation of his "rooted in Christianity" statement, is just the 2008 version of "Paris is worth a Mass". Chicago was worth attending Rev. Wright's church for 20 years, as no serious and sane Christian would do; and if Washington, DC, requires a pro forma Christian self-identification, it's as easy for a pol as Hillary's "lifelong", deeply-held New York Yankees fandom.

It's easy to back away from a conflict by simply saying we "shouldn't judge"; yet in our capacity as citizens, judging is precisely what we are required to do - not the state of the man's soul (if any), but certainly the content of his character. As a matter of speculation I'm reasonably sure Obama is no Christian - but Christian or no, he's definitely preparing to govern - and has so far in his Senate career, governed - in the very spirit of Antichrist.

[Stuart Koehl]

Francesca must forgive our skepticism. However, the blame for this is entirely in her ballpark. ACORN has, for the past several elections, been involved in voter registration activities that seem at best dubious and at worst massive fraud. The organization is under federal investigation as well as investigation by several state attorneys general. Several cases have already been adjudicated, and ACORN found guilty of numerous violations of state and federal law. Yet, for all that, the Obama campaign found its way clear to give them $800,000 to help with the get out the vote effort. And while I am a great fan of post-mortem Americans, animated Americans and mythical Americans, I am not sure that election laws have been altered in ways that allow them to vote--or for anyone to vote in several states at once.

Our suspicions are further aroused by the immense amounts of money the Obama campaign has been scooping up (after abandoning its pledge to accept public financing), particularly the immense number of small donations coming over the internet through a web site whose security features have been deliberately disabled in ways that allow valid credit card numbers to be used with false names and addresses (something not possible over at the McCain site, or even on the FSJ site, for that matter). The ability to make fraudulent donations has been demonstrated not only by concerned individuals, but by news organizations as well. The Obama campaign says it tries to weed these fraudulent transactions manually, though why it would do so, when there are automated features, is an interesting question--as is their physical ability to wade through the volume of donations. Requests that they simply put their donor database on line have been met with claims that this is too difficult, but Salon magazine put up a dummy database of equivalent size on its web site in about two hours.

Finally, just to make everybody's day, Tony Rezko, Chicago neighbor of the Anointed One and all-around "fixer", is presently singing to the FBI about the real estate transaction he arranged that allowed the Big O to buy the house in which he lives (it's on the University of Chicago applicants' tour, by the way--very nice house) for close to a million less than it was worth. Depending on what he says, we could be treated to the edifying sight of a President-Elect taking the oath of office under threat of Federal indictment. But, hey, that's the Chicago way, just like palling around with unrepentant terrorists and trash-talking African Nationalist shuck-and-jive artists like Jeremiah Wright.

[Rob G]

"Andy Griffith doesn't get as much credit as he deserves for his acting."

I saw him in a sort of modern-day Western some years ago in which he played a killer -- he was very good.

[Bob]

Hey, I'm no McCain fan. I'm voting *against* Obama. My apologies if you're not trolling, but this is the internet after all, and you have to assume anybody who comes out of nowhere and starts arguing is a troll a very large percentage of the time.

[Joe Long]

"Then there is the teaching in the New Testament that no murderer has eternal life - and Obama/Soetoro is pro-abortion and pro-infanticide. He does not have eternal life."

This is extremely sobering taken in conjunction with Christ's statement that adultery "in the heart" is real adultery...non-murderers, by that critierion, must be exceeding rare.

But Kipling wrote this whole election, years ago - not only in "City of Brass" but in his immortal "Cleared":

My soul! I'd sooner lie in jail for murder
plain and straight,
Pure crime I'd done with my own hand for
money, lust, or hate,
Than take a seat in Parliament by
fellow-felons cheered,
While one of those "not provens" proved me
cleared as you are cleared.
....

If black is black or white is white, in black
and white it's down,
You're only traitors to the Queen and rebels to
the Crown.
If print is print or words are words, the
learned Court perpends: --
We are not ruled by murderers, but only -- by
their friends.

Their friends, indeed. I have no idea whether Rudyard was right about that "Parnell Commission" but the man could turn a phrase.

[Joe Long]

Stuart: "I think Bob is hitting the nail fairly square on the head."

TUAD: "I might have swung the hammer a little differently than Bob, but I agree with the substance of what he's saying."

Comrades, enough with the hammers. Hasn't anyone here a sickle?

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

"but since some seem to find Bob incisive"

I found it embarrassing, myself, and the approval of some folks here that I respect (*cough* Stuart *cough*) doubly so.

[tjproudamerican]

McCain feels he owes America because America gave him two wives, a place in the Naval Academy, Great Wealth McCain, like President Reagan, realizes that God rewards those HE has chosen. McCain, like Reagan, confessed and God blessed him 7x70 times.

When his first wife busted up her face, McCain found a great Christian Women whom God had rewarded with looks, youth, and inherited wealth.

God is not some loser who loves the idle.

The problem with many African Americans is they think that just because the larger Christian Church followed St. Paul until 1867 and endorsed slavery, and then until the early 1960's endorsed Segregation, that the Church was somehow wrong.

Our Lord said, "The poor will ALWAYS be with us."

Instead of feeling sorry for themselves, the poor and weak and sick should realize that compared to the suffering of Our Lord, they have it easy. In fact, being born poor and being sick is an invitation for humility. God has chosen the poor and weak and sick to BE poor and weak and sick.

The best sermon the Church can offer is to say that nowhere in the Gospel does Jesus say, "Blessed are the Socialists who take from the hard-working and give to the lazy."

The Christian church should return to a real Christian Love and say to the poor, "Get over it and get to work." And the ENTIRE Christian Church should condemn any member who does not ACTIVELY vote for McCain Sarah as being in a state of sin.

If Obama wins, we must throw the liberals out of the Temple the way Jesus would. Liberalism=Evil.

[Michael D. Harmon]

Obama appears to be a remarkable person in many ways, not least among them that his worldview was formed in a quite radical community and apparently nothing has happened to him that has required him to alter it. He is a kind of hothouse flower, like many ideologues, whose experiences are not integrated into their outlooks but transformed mentally to conform to their perceptions.

Today we seem likely to give such a man not only the most powerful political office in the entire world, but control over its nuclear arsenal.

I must have left a window open, for I feel a sudden chill....

[W.E.D. Godbold]

Here we have an interesting test case. I had always thought that beta (and gamma) waves were a requirement for blogging, but I was obviously wrong.

[Bob]

Well, I hope I won't offend or embarass anybody when I point out the all-too-obvious trolling of "tjproudamerican." Please tell me it's obvious to others. . .

[NTBH]

Yeah, tjproudamerican was subtle like a sledgehammer.

[jp]

"I think I said earlier, McCain beats Obama, 51-49, with 287 electoral votes."

There's a history lesson in the making! Historians, more than the rest of us need to remind themselves to remove rose colored glasses.

McCain will lose, with under 200 electoral votes.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

Heh, heh. Joe Long did call for a sickle, didn't he?

Although the wrapping paper wasn't to some people's liking, let's look inside the box.

Abortion is a grave moral evil, an abominable sin, is it not?

Which of the two political philosophies as written in their official party platforms supports and affirms abortion? Didn't a Catholic bishop (or maybe he's an archbishop) state that the Democrat party is the "party of death" because of its official support for abortion?

So applying transitive logic ...

(1) Abortion is evil.

(2) Liberalism (as manifested in the outworking and policies of the Democrat Party) supports, espouses, enables, and aids and abets abortion.

Then what do you think the conclusion is?

[jp]

Wonderful...

Judy,

Dixie Notch has 21 registered voters. They pride themselves on a 100% turnout. Don't let the facts get in the way.

[Kamilla]

A hothouse flower and a chill coming in? I felt something profound or at least amusingly sarcastic coming on, but I feel the chill too much myself. I must go close the front door.

Kamilla

[DGP]

>>I must go close the front door.

"I, for one, welcome our new overlords."

[NTBH]

"I, for one, welcome our new overlords."

Thank you Kent Brockman.

[Judy K. Warner]

However many voters Dixville Notch has, the fact that the majority of them voted for Obama gives me a chill. The bit after that was just an add-on and I wish I hadn't added it on, for it distracts from what I thought was important. If the crusty New Hampshirites have fallen victim to the dreams of hope and change, we are in trouble.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

"Rooted in the Christian Tradition"

Although I don't think Obama is rooted in the Christian Tradition, his claims notwithstanding, I do firmly believe that this country was founded in the roots of the Christian Tradition. I also firmly believe that steely-eyed realism demands acknowledgement that the U.S. socio-politico-cultural milieu has largely abandoned those roots. (Parable of the Sower springs to mind.)

Alas, this presidential election is a watershed moment in whether we as a nation will effectively cast off those roots:

"For the first time since the 1960s, liberal Democrats are dominant. They are all but certain to have a lopsided majority in the House, and either a filibuster-proof Senate or something close to it. If Barack Obama wins the presidency today, they'll have an ideological ally in the White House.

A sharp lurch to the left and enactment of a liberal agenda, or major parts of it, are all but inevitable. The centrist limits in earlier eras of Democratic control are gone. In the short run, Democrats may be constrained by the weak economy and a large budget deficit. Tax hikes and massive spending programs, except those billed as job creation, may have to be delayed.

But much of their agenda -- the "card check" proposal to end secret ballots in union elections, the Fairness Doctrine to stifle conservative talk radio, liberal judicial nominees, trade restrictions, retreat from Iraq, talks with Iran -- doesn't require spending. And after 14 years of Republican control of Congress, the presidency, or both, Democrats are impatient. They want to move quickly.

From: We Could Be In for a Lurch to the Left

Replanting the roots of Christian Tradition after they've been severed by this Leftward Lurch will be nigh impossible.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

'Well, I hope I won't offend or embarass anybody when I point out the all-too-obvious trolling of "tjproudamerican."'

This indeed would be a textbook case.

[Bob]

Speaking of trolls and other half-human creatures, how about that voter intimidation in Philly? I'll bet Obama had nothing to do with that, being the compassionate man that he is. . .

[Letitia]

You are not "rooted in the Christian tradition" when you have spent 20 years marinating in the gussied-up Marxism of black liberation theology. Marxism is the antithesis of Christianity.

You are not being a Christian when you lie, cheat and steal and consort with others who do so.

[Wonders for Oyarsa]

I voted this morning for John McCain in a predominantly black precinct in North Carolina. It was interesting to stand in line in the rain with these folks. Many of them were clearly worse off economically from myself. Most of the older ones have lived through some rough times here in the south in the second half of the 20th century. I could sense in the room that this was a huge moment for nearly all of them.

It made me sad, because I couldn't in good conscience vote for Obama because of his stance (and stated plans) on abortion. It made me sad because I would have loved to share this moment with them, and be a part of it.

[Truth Unites... and Divides]

Francesca: "All the pundits, including Rove, are predicting 300+ electoral votes for Obama. I'm guessing over 350 EVs. ...

I doubt Obama will win by fewer than 6 points, very likely not less than 5."

Francesca, you were right. On this one you bested your loyal opposition Stuart.

Although I would be most ill if Obama pushes through the Freedom of Choice Act, I do realize that he made a campaign promise to do so. And though I usually honor a person who keeps their promise, I wouldn't hold it against Obama if he broke that promise.

P.S. To MC commenters: What bible verse(s) would you pick as being appropriate for President-elect Obama's victory?

[GL]

Our charge as Christians for the next four years as it has always been in the past and will always be in the future, and as it remains even now:

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

A Prayer for The President of the United States, and all in Civil Authority.

O LORD, our heavenly Father, the high and mighty Ruler of the universe, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers upon earth; Most heartily we beseech thee, with thy favour to behold and bless thy servant THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and all others in authority; and so replenish them with the grace of thy Holy Spirit, that they may always incline to thy will, and walk in thy way. Endue them plenteously with heavenly gifts; grant them in health and prosperity long to live; and finally, after this life, to attain everlasting joy and felicity; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

A Prayer for Congress.

MOST gracious God, we humbly beseech thee, as for the people of these United States in general, so especially for their Senate and Representatives in Congress assembled; that thou wouldest be pleased to direct and prosper all their consultations, to the advancement of thy glory, the good of thy Church, the safety, honour, and welfare of thy people; that all things may be so ordered and settled by their endeavours, upon the best and surest foundations, that peace and happiness, truth and justice, religion and piety, may be establish among us for all generations. These and all other necessaries, for them, for us, and thy whole Church, we humbly beg in the Name and mediation of Jesus Christ, our most blessed Lord and Saviour. Amen.

For a State Legislature.

O GOD, the fountain of wisdom, whose statutes are good and gracious and whose law is truth; We beseech thee so to guide and bless the Legislature of this State, that it may ordain for our governance only such things as please thee, to the glory of thy Name and the welfare of the people; through Jesus Christ, thy Son, our Lord. Amen.

For Courts of Justice.

ALMIGHTY God, who sittest in the throne judging right; We humbly beseech thee to bless the courts of justice and the magistrates in all this land; and give unto them the spirit of wisdom and understanding, that they. may discern the truth and impartially administer the law in the fear of thee alone; through him who shall come to be our judge, thy Son, our Saviour, Jesus Christ. Amen.

For Our Country.

ALMIGHTY God, who hast given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of thy favour and glad to do thy will. Bless our land with honourable industry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion; from pride and arrogancy, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitudes brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endue with the spirit of wisdom those to whom in thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that, through obedience to thy law, we may show forth thy praise among the nations of the earth. In the time of prosperity, fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in thee to fail; all which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

[Seth R.]

Yeah TUAD,

I figured that connection was obvious. My point remains though.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>Speaking of trolls and other half-human creatures, how about that voter intimidation in Philly? I'll bet Obama had nothing to do with that, being the compassionate man that he is. . .<<<

My daughter got disenfranchised in Philly. She was registered to vote here in Virginia, but when she went up to U Penn, some PIRG-types convinced her to register there. That was back on 28 August. On 22 October, she got a letter and her application back, asking her to make corrections and return them no later than. . .22 October. The letter was postmarked 20 October. So, too late to fix her registration, to late to vote absentee in Virginia. Did the fact that she checked the Republican box under party affiliation have anything to do with that? What do you think?

[W.E.D. Godbold]

This is one I was quoting to my children this morning: Put not your trust in princes, nor in any child of man

We say the prayer for the president (that GL posted) every night and the others occasionally. We mention the names of our President and Governor and, as of tonight, we'll add President-elect Barack to them.

[Rob G]

The wet dream of the baby-killers, God-haters, gun-confiscators, and wealth-redistributors has come true.

We get what we deserve.

[Joe Long]

No, Rob, politically we get what the MAJORITY deserve. Theologically I am very happy to get what I don't deserve at all (grace); politically, not so much.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>The wet dream of the baby-killers, God-haters, gun-confiscators, and wealth-redistributors has come true.<<<

For two years, maybe. But I have a feeling a lot of Obama voters are going to be doing something akin to the "walk of shame" in that time, being like the person who wakes up in a stranger's bed and has to tiptoe home in a disheveled state, possibly lacking one or more items of clothing.

In 1992, the Democrats won the White House, and both houses of Congress, and proceeded for two years to govern from their high horse. In 1994, the arrogance of power got its comeuppence, and a wiser, chastened Bill Clinton was forced to govern from the center for the remainder of his two terms. Will Obama have the humility to learn from his mistakes? Maybe, maybe not. But, if he doesn't, in two years time, the Republicans will have reclaimed one or both houses of the legislature; in four, they will be back in the White House. Governance requires more than good looks, a melifluous voice, and sloganeering. It requires leadership and decisiveness, traits which Obama has yet to demonstrate. Will he "grow" into the office? I don't know.

I do know that the wildest hopes of his supporters will be dashed, and the greatest fears of his opponents will not come to pass. Reality has a way of intervening in the plans of newly-elected presidents. We won't be leaving Iraq any time soon. We won't be invading Pakistan. We won't be slashing the defense budget by 25%. We won't be raising taxes radically in the middle of a recession. We won't be getting new abortion legislation. We won't be getting a new social welfare system. We'll get vernier adjustments to the left, at most. The issue is whether the Democrats will shoot themselves in the foot by overreaching and trying for more.

[Francesca]

I hate to see anyone discouraged, so I'm sorry for how some of you must be feeling this morning. I greatly respect the views on abortion expressed on this board, while simultaneously disagreeing with criminalizing the process. I hope all can work together to reduce abortion rates, which is a stated goal of Senator Obama's. Senator McCain's speech was extraordinarily generous and gracious, as are contributions here by GL and W.E.D. Godbold. McCain and Obama looked exhausted. I'm sure they and their families are glad this is over. It was extremely moving to see big African-American men wiping away tears at Grant Park last night. Perhaps there can be healing for many people as a result of what has happened. I apologize for anything offensive I may have said in the heat of the election process. I probably won't post here much anymore. God bless you all.

[Rob G]

"Theologically I am very happy to get what I don't deserve at all (grace); politically, not so much."

Agreed, Joe. By the "we" I didn't mean we as individuals, but we as a nation.

And I agree with Stuart too. The problem with a dream is that you eventually wake up from it.

[Bob]

I, for one, am pleased to see America finally get its first Arab-American president. I don't know what all these people are talking about with the African-American thing. Well, gotta go be a Coffee-American and do my Work-American. I'll drive there as a Chevy-American on this fine November-American day American-American.

(There really needs to be a little text emoticon for rolling of the eyes.)

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>I hope all can work together to reduce abortion rates, which is a stated goal of Senator Obama's. <<<

I wonder how it is possible to live in a world that does not recognize the simple fact that one gets more of what one subsidizes, and less of what one criminalizes.

[Stuart Koehl]

>>>I don't know what all these people are talking about with the African-American thing.<<<

The Onion has the right idea:

Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job
NOVEMBER 5, 2008 | ISSUE 44•45

WASHINGTON—African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least-desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low-reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind. The job comes with such intense scrutiny and so certain a guarantee of failure that only one other person even bothered applying for it. Said scholar and activist Mark L. Denton, "It just goes to show you that, in this country, a black man still can't catch a break."

[Stuart Koehl]

My wife had an interesting observation. Support for Obama seemed mainly concentrated between low income and high income, with the modest middle going for McCain. "It's basically the poor and the affluent trying to get the middle class to support them".

[Bob]

Maybe when I get all this money coming to me that Obama's gonna take from people who make more than me I can move to a red state. I don't know what to think about living in the state that overwhelmingly elects Obama (it was a foregone conclusion, of course) but (by the current numbers) rejects gay "marriage." And hey, maybe I can get a job in that fancy new Obama citizen's security force. That'd be cool. I'm totally going to spy on my neighbors and snitch on them for everything. Think I'll move next to Stuart. . . Oh wait, you're in a very blue state, right? Then again, aren't we all, so to speak.

[Stuart Koehl]

I'm waiting for southern Virginia to secede from Northern Virginia. This place is full of damyankees, anyhow.

[Bob]

For all that, I live in a part of California that would love to secede. And the rest of the state would probably be glad to be rid of us.

Pity we can't just let the loonies have their country and we all have our own, since we don't want them and they don't want us. Oh wait. . .we tried that once. . .

Sorry, don't mean to start *that* debate. (Or do I?. . .)